How To Use Safety as a Competitive Advantage in the Trucking Industry w/ Jon Stanley

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.360 --> 00:00:04.919 We have got to build a culture in the industry that centered on dependability and 2 00:00:05.000 --> 00:00:11.310 reliability and the safety programs that we've worked hard to develop. Welcome to the 3 00:00:11.390 --> 00:00:16.149 road forward, a podcast for trucking industry leaders. This is the show for 4 00:00:16.309 --> 00:00:20.510 industry that's like you, hard working, honest leaders who know there's promise around 5 00:00:20.510 --> 00:00:25.820 the next bend and exciting future of the trucking industry and a chance for your 6 00:00:25.899 --> 00:00:29.460 company to thrive. If you see the opportunity ahead but don't want to travel 7 00:00:29.539 --> 00:00:33.140 the tough road alone, join us, as we talked with business leaders finding 8 00:00:33.140 --> 00:00:37.929 their way forward in a changing industry. Let's get into the show. Welcome 9 00:00:38.130 --> 00:00:42.530 to the road forward podcast. I'm Flynn holebrook. I'm your host for today. 10 00:00:42.929 --> 00:00:47.609 I've got John Stanley with synergy solutions with me today and I think that 11 00:00:47.729 --> 00:00:51.479 you're in for a real treat John. Thanks for thanks for joining us. 12 00:00:51.520 --> 00:00:55.280 Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm excited. Good. Well, good, 13 00:00:55.359 --> 00:00:57.679 meet me too. I think we've got a lot to unpacked to day. 14 00:00:57.679 --> 00:01:02.520 John. You're with a company called synergy solutions and you guys do a 15 00:01:02.640 --> 00:01:07.750 lot of things in the trucking industry. Can you give our listeners like a 16 00:01:07.030 --> 00:01:11.390 real quick overview of what you guys do. Yeah, so synergy solutions. 17 00:01:11.549 --> 00:01:19.379 We we offer safety management consulting services to the trucking industry and really anything transportation 18 00:01:19.579 --> 00:01:23.019 related. So it's not just trucking, it's anything that has wills. We 19 00:01:23.620 --> 00:01:27.540 help out. So we actually are different than most consultants. We offer a 20 00:01:29.260 --> 00:01:36.609 handson safety management solution where we're involved in the safety management program of our customers 21 00:01:37.090 --> 00:01:42.530 in great detail. So we're very hands on safety consultant group. Got It. 22 00:01:42.730 --> 00:01:44.609 Got It, and I've gotten to know you a little bit. I 23 00:01:44.730 --> 00:01:49.239 know that you guys provide phenomenal value not only to your customers but to the 24 00:01:49.439 --> 00:01:53.239 industry as a whole, and I think you've got you know, I visited 25 00:01:53.359 --> 00:01:56.719 with you, John, yesterday, kind of in preparation for the show, 26 00:01:56.879 --> 00:02:01.709 and we uncovered that that you hold this really unique viewpoint on the industry and 27 00:02:01.829 --> 00:02:06.950 I found it pretty enlightening. So, and I'm probably going to butcher the 28 00:02:06.989 --> 00:02:10.949 words here, but you believe that there's a fundamental structure problem in the industry 29 00:02:12.469 --> 00:02:15.539 that is leading to all the challenges that we see in the supply chain and 30 00:02:17.340 --> 00:02:22.139 there's a lot of opportunity, it sounds like, in your opinion, to 31 00:02:22.300 --> 00:02:25.900 make the industry work better for the trucking company, for the shipper, for 32 00:02:27.020 --> 00:02:30.250 the driver, for everybody involved. So, John, can you share your 33 00:02:30.409 --> 00:02:36.169 point of view on this structure problem? Yeah, absolutely. So my point 34 00:02:36.169 --> 00:02:40.610 of view, and this the structure problem is we've got. We've got approximately 35 00:02:40.729 --> 00:02:49.599 one point nine million carriers in the industry and now those one point nine million 36 00:02:49.719 --> 00:02:54.199 carriers currently, based off the last numbers I saw through Ata, ninety seven 37 00:02:54.319 --> 00:02:59.030 percent of those carriers, or twenty trucks or less. And I think the 38 00:02:59.349 --> 00:03:06.550 the structure problem that that we're experiencing in the industry is we have not provided 39 00:03:06.590 --> 00:03:12.349 adequate support and mentorship to these new companies that are coming into the industry and 40 00:03:12.550 --> 00:03:19.060 teaching them how to how to run their business safely, how to run their 41 00:03:19.099 --> 00:03:24.620 business effectively and profitably. And you know, anybody can anybody can start up 42 00:03:24.620 --> 00:03:28.449 a dealt number. I can go out right now and start up a dealt 43 00:03:28.610 --> 00:03:34.050 number and have zero experience in the industry, zero experience driving a truck, 44 00:03:34.090 --> 00:03:39.689 zero experience really managing a trucking company, no safety experience, and throw five 45 00:03:39.729 --> 00:03:43.879 trucks on the road. If I have the ability to find the trucks right 46 00:03:43.919 --> 00:03:49.039 now in the industry and and nobody. Nobody checks on me and I probably 47 00:03:49.039 --> 00:03:53.400 won't get a new entrant audit for twelve to fourteen months, realistically, because 48 00:03:53.439 --> 00:03:58.030 of how backed up and how short staff the FMCSA is. So nobody has 49 00:03:58.069 --> 00:04:01.430 eyes on my my company for at least twelve to fourteen months and I have 50 00:04:01.550 --> 00:04:05.750 zero mentorship on how to build a company the right way. So one I 51 00:04:05.789 --> 00:04:09.789 could be profitable, but to I can protect the public while I have my 52 00:04:09.870 --> 00:04:14.379 drivers on the roadway, and I think that is the structural problem that we 53 00:04:14.460 --> 00:04:16.620 have in the industry right now. And if you look at you look at 54 00:04:16.620 --> 00:04:20.819 some of the rates that that we're seeing as far as insurance premiums, and 55 00:04:21.660 --> 00:04:26.649 we look at the the freight rates that exist. When I'm a new company 56 00:04:26.769 --> 00:04:29.209 that come out, I'm just going to pick up every load I possibly can 57 00:04:29.290 --> 00:04:31.209 and I'm going to undercut as many people as I possibly can because I need 58 00:04:31.329 --> 00:04:35.129 the loads I've got. I've got to generate revenue for those trucks. So 59 00:04:35.250 --> 00:04:41.519 I'm accepting in a lower rate, which then hurts the companies who have a 60 00:04:41.639 --> 00:04:45.279 reputation of needing the higher rate because they have the better equipment, they have 61 00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:50.120 the you know, the driver's staff that that's paid to maintain a driver's staff. 62 00:04:50.800 --> 00:04:55.430 And you know, now, now we're competing against another. We've got 63 00:04:55.509 --> 00:04:58.709 these higher rates that we need, really need to run at, but these 64 00:04:58.870 --> 00:05:02.910 lower rates are being offered because we have newer companies coming in and saying I 65 00:05:02.949 --> 00:05:08.459 can run it for that, not realizing what their expenses are. And then 66 00:05:09.100 --> 00:05:15.379 and then we have these unsafe companies that exist because it's just a cutthroat process 67 00:05:15.620 --> 00:05:20.060 that exists in the industry and they have zero programs. Right. So, 68 00:05:20.730 --> 00:05:27.170 John, what I'm hearing you say is that this industry fragmentation, right, 69 00:05:27.250 --> 00:05:32.009 all of these small trucking providers. Right, obviously this is a very competitive 70 00:05:33.009 --> 00:05:39.360 industry. What I'm hearing you say is that their barrier to entry is so 71 00:05:39.600 --> 00:05:42.079 low, right, like you said, I can go get at the OTE 72 00:05:42.199 --> 00:05:46.879 number, I can buy two trucks and I can enter this market space with 73 00:05:47.240 --> 00:05:51.110 known knowledge, and now I'm probably going to learn a really hard lesson, 74 00:05:51.750 --> 00:05:58.790 right, if I do that. So how how do people I guess there's 75 00:05:58.790 --> 00:06:00.829 a lot here to unpack. Right. So, if I'M A if I'm 76 00:06:00.870 --> 00:06:04.740 a larger carrier, let's go here first. If I'm a larger carrier, 77 00:06:04.779 --> 00:06:08.819 let's say I've been in business fifty years. I've got a hundred, hundred 78 00:06:08.899 --> 00:06:14.019 fifty trucks right and and I've realized that, yes, I have to have 79 00:06:14.819 --> 00:06:17.970 these higher rates and I have to have this big safety infrastructure and I have 80 00:06:18.089 --> 00:06:21.370 to have this good equipment and I have to pay my drivers, you know, 81 00:06:21.689 --> 00:06:27.329 some amount right to keep them on board. What should I do in 82 00:06:27.449 --> 00:06:33.240 this dynamic, right, if these smaller companies are coming in undercutting me and 83 00:06:33.680 --> 00:06:38.360 and doing all these nasty things in the market, how do I, as 84 00:06:38.480 --> 00:06:43.759 the long established company, survive in the market place? You know, that's 85 00:06:43.879 --> 00:06:46.990 and that's that's the tough thing, because we're seeing these long established companies close 86 00:06:47.470 --> 00:06:51.790 everywhere because they just they just can't keep up with it. For me, 87 00:06:51.949 --> 00:06:57.389 I think we have got to build a culture in the industry that centered on 88 00:06:57.629 --> 00:07:02.019 dependability and reliability and the safety programs that we've worked hard to develop. I 89 00:07:02.139 --> 00:07:06.300 can't imagine that a shipper and really it it. We have to put some 90 00:07:06.459 --> 00:07:13.540 onus, on shippers, to to recognize they're sending their loads with right and 91 00:07:14.300 --> 00:07:19.889 if I'm throwing a load of lumber onto a onto a company that's never driven 92 00:07:19.970 --> 00:07:25.850 through the mountains of Colorado, we've just experienced this right and now, that 93 00:07:25.970 --> 00:07:29.170 loads not going to make it and and my name is wrapped up into a 94 00:07:29.610 --> 00:07:34.959 major lawsuit and, quite frankly, the largest hot topic of the transportation industry 95 00:07:35.040 --> 00:07:40.000 right now, as of today. We've got to protect ourselves against that. 96 00:07:40.160 --> 00:07:44.199 And so these companies that have these reputations of being safe, to have the 97 00:07:44.279 --> 00:07:48.310 good CSA scores, that have the solid hiring practices, a solid training programs, 98 00:07:48.829 --> 00:07:53.629 we should be selling that to our shippers. We should be pushing that 99 00:07:53.629 --> 00:07:57.470 as hard as we can. As to why? Why my rates need to 100 00:07:57.550 --> 00:08:00.699 be where they're at, because I can promise you that your loads going to 101 00:08:00.779 --> 00:08:03.500 make it every time. I can promise your load will be there safely every 102 00:08:03.579 --> 00:08:07.980 time. So, John, in your experience, and you mentioned this, 103 00:08:09.259 --> 00:08:11.259 this load of lumber in Colorado, and I think we all know what what 104 00:08:11.459 --> 00:08:16.209 happened there. For those of you that don't the it was a runaway truck 105 00:08:16.250 --> 00:08:20.930 right going down Ia ty that that did not jump off on the runaway truck 106 00:08:22.009 --> 00:08:28.199 ramp and instead plowed into traffic down the down the hill, sitting on the 107 00:08:28.240 --> 00:08:33.080 highway right and it resulted in fatalities and a huge mass. The driver was 108 00:08:33.159 --> 00:08:37.279 sittence two hundred and ten years in prison. So obviously a very bad add 109 00:08:37.360 --> 00:08:41.309 situation. In your experience, John, how frequently or what is the risk 110 00:08:41.389 --> 00:08:46.070 that a shipper holds, because it kind of seems like the shipper could be 111 00:08:46.110 --> 00:08:50.909 a lot of the solution to this problem. In that example in Colorado, 112 00:08:52.070 --> 00:08:54.590 did this? Was the shipper invited to the loss? You know, I 113 00:08:54.669 --> 00:08:58.100 don't know for sure. Sure if the shipper was, there was a broker 114 00:08:58.179 --> 00:09:01.620 involved. I'm sure the broker was. was named in that, you know, 115 00:09:01.740 --> 00:09:07.059 in that lawsuit. I think more and more we are seeing brokers being 116 00:09:07.740 --> 00:09:11.049 being pulled into these lawsuits and these these planeff attorneys are grabbing onto anybody, 117 00:09:11.090 --> 00:09:16.730 anybody that's associated with why that load is on the roadway with that company. 118 00:09:16.289 --> 00:09:20.169 They're they're involved. The driver is personally named in the lawsuit, the company 119 00:09:20.210 --> 00:09:24.639 that's haulowing the freight is named in the lawsuit and whoever broker the load to 120 00:09:24.679 --> 00:09:28.960 him is usually named in the lawsuit as well. They're going to grab on 121 00:09:28.039 --> 00:09:31.559 as much money as they possibly can and as many insurance policies they can go 122 00:09:31.720 --> 00:09:37.159 after. So I think it's I think it's not too far away that we're 123 00:09:37.159 --> 00:09:43.669 going to see more shippers involved in in these types of cases because the they're 124 00:09:43.710 --> 00:09:46.309 going to try to capitalize off as much as they possibly can capitalize off of, 125 00:09:46.870 --> 00:09:50.629 you know, and there is an exposure to these shippers. I mean 126 00:09:50.669 --> 00:09:54.539 they're their name is on his on that product, their name is on that 127 00:09:54.740 --> 00:09:58.340 that load, remove of the planeff attorney. You know, let's go back 128 00:09:58.379 --> 00:10:01.980 to just being good human beings and making sure that we're taking care of our 129 00:10:03.059 --> 00:10:07.370 fellow brothers and sisters on the roadway, and shippers have an onus in that 130 00:10:07.529 --> 00:10:13.370 process. They they absolutely should be paying attention to who they're providing loads to 131 00:10:13.529 --> 00:10:16.610 and who they're asking to haul they're freight. Right, and how often does 132 00:10:16.690 --> 00:10:20.250 that happen? I mean I just in wondering, you know, if there's 133 00:10:20.289 --> 00:10:24.120 not a big financial incentive to me as a shipper, I just send my 134 00:10:24.279 --> 00:10:28.240 loads to the closest broker and hope for the best. Right, and and 135 00:10:28.440 --> 00:10:33.799 maybe maybe that's part of the structure problem in the industry is that, you 136 00:10:33.879 --> 00:10:39.149 know, it really does operate on a low cost model in a lot of 137 00:10:39.269 --> 00:10:43.230 in a lot of cases. So, I mean, obviously shippers probably can 138 00:10:43.309 --> 00:10:46.269 do a better job at choosing their carriers. Is this kind of a trend? 139 00:10:46.269 --> 00:10:50.059 That you're seeing in the market at all. It's a trend that I 140 00:10:50.460 --> 00:10:54.019 that I I'm not seeing enough of. No, I mean we're we're just 141 00:10:54.259 --> 00:10:58.620 we're just shipping with with whoever. I mean, that's why we that's why 142 00:10:58.700 --> 00:11:03.779 we have so many of these smaller guys who really have zero program who aren't 143 00:11:03.779 --> 00:11:07.529 really developing a safety program because they don't know how or they don't have the 144 00:11:07.610 --> 00:11:11.809 capacity to. But yet they still have loads. We're still pumping loads through 145 00:11:11.809 --> 00:11:15.529 them. In ninety seven percent of them are still in business because we have 146 00:11:15.970 --> 00:11:20.360 brokers and we have shippers who really aren't looking at who am I sending these 147 00:11:20.480 --> 00:11:24.000 loads through and and I don't think we'll ever overcome that. We're going to 148 00:11:24.080 --> 00:11:28.240 need them. We absolutely need them. We're sixty to seventyzero drivers shy you 149 00:11:28.440 --> 00:11:31.519 in the industry right now of being able to handle all the loads that are 150 00:11:31.679 --> 00:11:35.029 that are coming through. So we can't get away from that. But I 151 00:11:35.149 --> 00:11:39.789 think where we have to go is is we've got to create some mentorship for 152 00:11:39.870 --> 00:11:43.990 these smaller guys. We got to give them a resource and an outlet that 153 00:11:45.110 --> 00:11:48.419 they can tap into, some safety resources that isn't going to break their bank. 154 00:11:48.940 --> 00:11:52.980 Give them some support from the government, give them some support from the 155 00:11:52.019 --> 00:11:58.299 public to help make them successful so we can keep America moving. And if 156 00:11:58.379 --> 00:12:03.049 we don't, we're going to lose we're going to lose some companies that that 157 00:12:03.210 --> 00:12:05.970 we absolutely need. We're going to lose some bigger ones, we're going to 158 00:12:05.009 --> 00:12:09.649 lose a lot of the smaller ones. So, yeah, so safety maybe 159 00:12:09.809 --> 00:12:13.809 becomes a competitive advantage. Yeah, right, I think that that's what we 160 00:12:13.889 --> 00:12:18.720 would all love to see, is that those with the best safety programs gardener 161 00:12:18.799 --> 00:12:22.919 the highest rates and are the busiest, right. And so how do we 162 00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:26.559 how do we make that happen? I mean, if I am the, 163 00:12:26.480 --> 00:12:31.429 you know, ten truck trucking company and I don't have that great of a 164 00:12:31.549 --> 00:12:37.230 safety program in place, obviously write the incentives to keep adding trucks, keep 165 00:12:37.230 --> 00:12:39.230 adding trucks, keep adding trucks, because you want to generate profits, right. 166 00:12:39.629 --> 00:12:45.179 But like, how how should I grow my business? Because it sounds 167 00:12:45.220 --> 00:12:50.659 like maybe over the long run, if I don't have good safety program and 168 00:12:50.779 --> 00:12:54.659 processes in place, maybe I'll find myself at a competitive disadvantage. Yeah, 169 00:12:54.820 --> 00:12:58.169 absolutely. Well, I mean the company that just experienced the this accident in 170 00:12:58.250 --> 00:13:03.210 Colorado went through that. I mean literally the day after the accident they closed 171 00:13:03.250 --> 00:13:07.049 their doors and had to start up a new dealt and now they've lost their 172 00:13:07.049 --> 00:13:11.210 insurance so that they're out of business. He will not he will not run 173 00:13:11.250 --> 00:13:15.960 a business again. So had he built that program properly from the start and 174 00:13:16.080 --> 00:13:22.799 focused more on developing good hiring practices, good training programs, documented training programs, 175 00:13:22.039 --> 00:13:26.830 and built a safety program centered on expectations that he has for his drivers 176 00:13:26.870 --> 00:13:31.149 and holding his drivers accountable to those expectations from the start, he would have 177 00:13:31.190 --> 00:13:35.789 avoided this accident. They would have they would have been able to build a 178 00:13:35.870 --> 00:13:41.029 long term company that would have been here for years to come. And and 179 00:13:41.899 --> 00:13:43.980 he probably could have been you more than four trucks. He probably could have 180 00:13:45.019 --> 00:13:48.059 built himself to fifteen, twenty, thirty, forty fifty trucks over that long 181 00:13:48.139 --> 00:13:52.899 term period, which would have made him way more profitable, you know, 182 00:13:52.980 --> 00:13:56.049 would have provided a long lasting income for his family and for the families that 183 00:13:56.129 --> 00:14:00.690 that joined his team. And I think that's where we have to we have 184 00:14:00.809 --> 00:14:03.970 to focus. If you're coming into the industry as a new company, build 185 00:14:03.009 --> 00:14:07.889 your safety program now. Build it as if you're a hundred fifty trucks today, 186 00:14:09.809 --> 00:14:13.399 and it's not that expensive. It doesn't take that much to build that 187 00:14:13.559 --> 00:14:18.039 program you're looking at maybe a twelve to fourteen thousand dollar a year investment to 188 00:14:18.159 --> 00:14:22.759 develop some of these policies, developed these these programs, develop some safety management 189 00:14:24.200 --> 00:14:28.470 processes that will help guiding direct your drivers to be safe drivers on the roadway. 190 00:14:28.909 --> 00:14:33.470 And now you've provided them with some stability, some long term employment where 191 00:14:33.509 --> 00:14:37.549 they don't have to worry about coming in and being pushed to do something unsafe 192 00:14:37.899 --> 00:14:41.500 or do something that they wouldn't want to do. You're going to retain those 193 00:14:41.539 --> 00:14:46.379 drivers and in long you know, long term it's going to make you more 194 00:14:46.379 --> 00:14:50.419 reputable in the industry because you're not going to have a driver shortage. Drivers 195 00:14:50.460 --> 00:14:54.610 are drawn to safe programs. It'll make you more dependable, you can carry 196 00:14:54.610 --> 00:14:58.289 more loads, you can accept more loads, which makes you more profitable in 197 00:14:58.370 --> 00:15:05.090 the long run. Safety programs that are properly managed mean dollar signs. The 198 00:15:05.210 --> 00:15:09.600 investment does result in profit. And so so how do people actually go about 199 00:15:09.879 --> 00:15:16.399 if if they have not already thought about what is my safety program right besides 200 00:15:16.519 --> 00:15:20.159 just okay, check, I have an eld like what what thought processed do 201 00:15:20.279 --> 00:15:24.990 they actually need to go through to put some safety processes in place. Yeah, 202 00:15:26.149 --> 00:15:30.470 that's I love that question because I have this, this conversation with with 203 00:15:30.789 --> 00:15:35.149 all my customers on a regular basis. I think it's a simple question. 204 00:15:35.309 --> 00:15:37.460 You Ask yourself and you ask your drivers, because most of these new company 205 00:15:37.460 --> 00:15:43.259 owners are more than likely a driver themselves. Are probably driving along with their 206 00:15:43.460 --> 00:15:48.980 their their drivers. So ask yourself, what can kill me when I'm on 207 00:15:48.059 --> 00:15:52.250 the roadway? What will end my life while I'm out there on the road 208 00:15:54.169 --> 00:16:00.250 and do I have something in place that will help me avoid death while I'm 209 00:16:00.250 --> 00:16:04.440 on the roadway? And and if I do have something in there, you 210 00:16:04.519 --> 00:16:07.879 know, like why haven't I died on the roadway right now? Why am 211 00:16:07.919 --> 00:16:12.399 I still alive today? And do I have enough of that that's in place 212 00:16:12.639 --> 00:16:15.600 to prevent me from dying? And so as you start thinking about that, 213 00:16:15.799 --> 00:16:18.629 will okay, what can kill me on the roadway? Speed. If I'm 214 00:16:18.629 --> 00:16:22.190 speeding, I'm going to lose control my vehicle. That's going to kill me. 215 00:16:22.269 --> 00:16:25.710 Do I have something in place that helps prevent speed? Are My truck 216 00:16:25.870 --> 00:16:30.590 governed and do I have a policy that states these are my expectations for speed? 217 00:16:30.190 --> 00:16:33.539 Okay, now, I don't I need to create a speed policy? 218 00:16:33.779 --> 00:16:37.259 Do I require a seat belt? Usage statistics show you're more likely to pass 219 00:16:37.259 --> 00:16:41.500 away in a truck, a truck accident because you're not seatbelted. I mean 220 00:16:41.580 --> 00:16:45.700 that's just just the known fact, right. Do I have a policy for 221 00:16:45.779 --> 00:16:48.250 that? No, I so I start with policies. Here's my expectations. 222 00:16:48.289 --> 00:16:51.769 I'm going to write a policies for all the things that could cause an accident 223 00:16:51.809 --> 00:16:53.889 that would kill my driver, and then I need to roll it out. 224 00:16:53.889 --> 00:16:56.850 I need to push it out to my drivers, I need to teach them, 225 00:16:56.889 --> 00:17:00.409 I need to educate them. And then do I have good hiring practices? 226 00:17:00.529 --> 00:17:03.200 Am I meeting compliance? If I'm not meeting compliance, and there's a 227 00:17:03.240 --> 00:17:07.480 simple question there. On FMCSA, you can ask yourself all these different questions. 228 00:17:07.559 --> 00:17:11.359 Am I meeting that? If I'm not, I'm probably not not running 229 00:17:11.359 --> 00:17:15.869 a safe program. Compliance is literally the floor of a safety program. That's 230 00:17:15.910 --> 00:17:18.910 the bare minimum. It's the basics. If I don't have the basics in 231 00:17:18.990 --> 00:17:25.509 place, I'm certainly not doing anything to prevent accidents or or prevent somebody who 232 00:17:25.509 --> 00:17:29.990 shouldn't be behind the wheel. So that's where I would start as a company. 233 00:17:30.140 --> 00:17:32.579 Start with the basics. And if I don't have the basics or if 234 00:17:32.619 --> 00:17:34.940 I don't have the know how to implement the basics, then I need to 235 00:17:34.980 --> 00:17:40.460 go seek out somebody who does that, can help me implement the basics and 236 00:17:40.700 --> 00:17:45.490 and build my program over time. So when I'm a hundred trucks, it's 237 00:17:45.490 --> 00:17:48.049 the same. I still have the solid program it's always been with my drivers 238 00:17:48.130 --> 00:17:52.450 from the start. So yeah, so that that makes a lot of sense 239 00:17:52.529 --> 00:17:56.930 to me. Why do you think people don't do this by default? I 240 00:17:56.049 --> 00:18:00.359 mean, this seems to me like a no brainer, right. If I'm 241 00:18:00.359 --> 00:18:03.759 starting a trucking company, I should probably think about how do I keep my 242 00:18:03.799 --> 00:18:07.160 driver safe on the road? So I think I think they think about it, 243 00:18:07.920 --> 00:18:11.720 but I think they are oblivious to the exposures that exist in the industry. 244 00:18:12.190 --> 00:18:15.230 You know, when I was a driver, I had tunnel vision. 245 00:18:15.670 --> 00:18:18.349 It was just me and I never had any accidents. I didn't have any 246 00:18:18.390 --> 00:18:22.589 incidents. I was I was a safe driver, I didn't have any issues, 247 00:18:22.150 --> 00:18:25.589 and so when I first came into safety, it's like, Oh, 248 00:18:25.630 --> 00:18:26.460 well, I got to do is just pay attention and, do you know, 249 00:18:26.539 --> 00:18:32.140 focus and you're good. It's safety so much beyond that. It's it's 250 00:18:32.700 --> 00:18:37.380 deeper than just paying attention. And I think as a driver, we come 251 00:18:37.420 --> 00:18:41.529 to the industry and I start a company and I'm I all I know is 252 00:18:41.569 --> 00:18:45.930 driving. So I've never never gained any experience and how to manage the business 253 00:18:45.970 --> 00:18:51.970 and never gained any experience and how to manage safety. So what I don't 254 00:18:51.970 --> 00:18:55.170 know is what I don't know. And quite frankly, one, like I 255 00:18:55.210 --> 00:18:59.960 said before, when I register for a toot number third, all all has 256 00:19:00.039 --> 00:19:03.160 on. There's like seven questions to ask you. Do you know? Do 257 00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:06.480 you have safety expectations? Do you have a safety program do you have this 258 00:19:06.599 --> 00:19:11.470 for yeah, my safety programs me. I'm the safety program right when reality 259 00:19:11.630 --> 00:19:15.829 is I need to build dq files, I need to build hiring practices and 260 00:19:15.950 --> 00:19:19.430 policies and a drug and alcohol program the Clearing House and all these other things 261 00:19:19.549 --> 00:19:25.259 that we aren't educating on in the industry and I think that's why, that's 262 00:19:25.259 --> 00:19:30.220 why they're doing it. It's we're not educating them as industry leaders, we 263 00:19:30.980 --> 00:19:36.779 need to educate these new companies. I think education is true, John. 264 00:19:36.819 --> 00:19:40.369 I also think you know, I when I started a trucking company. You 265 00:19:40.450 --> 00:19:42.009 know safety. I don't know. It's funny. Safety is like one of 266 00:19:42.049 --> 00:19:48.609 these things that is very important, but it's not very urgent in a lot 267 00:19:48.690 --> 00:19:52.809 of situations, right, because, especially when you're managing these it's not you 268 00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:56.160 know, these smaller size trucking companies, they don't have a safety department, 269 00:19:56.200 --> 00:20:00.119 they don't have a VP of safety. It all gets promoted to the owner. 270 00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:03.599 You're the owners, the manager of operations. He sometimes drives. He's 271 00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:07.390 also the mechanic, he is the Har Person, right, he's doing all 272 00:20:07.470 --> 00:20:11.710 these things and when you look at the checklist of stuff you've got to do 273 00:20:11.869 --> 00:20:15.630 today, you know there's all these all these phone calls and all this urgent 274 00:20:15.710 --> 00:20:19.509 stuff and you really never get to focus on the business. You're in the 275 00:20:19.589 --> 00:20:23.180 business, yeah, all day, every day, right. And so I 276 00:20:23.339 --> 00:20:27.380 think part of the challenge here, and maybe you've seen this in your experience, 277 00:20:27.539 --> 00:20:32.779 part of the challenges is how do you step back as a business owner 278 00:20:33.339 --> 00:20:37.529 and say I'm going to work on my business today and I'm going to think 279 00:20:37.529 --> 00:20:40.809 about safetire, I'm going to think about financer, I'm going to think whatever 280 00:20:40.849 --> 00:20:47.210 the whatever the topic of the day is. How can people do this right? 281 00:20:47.450 --> 00:20:52.119 And and maybe it just comes down to time management and personal choices and 282 00:20:52.599 --> 00:20:55.680 and these kind of things. But but what if you seem be successful? 283 00:20:56.000 --> 00:21:02.200 You know, it's it's the companies who you just get to the point where 284 00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:06.190 they realize that I can't be on the truck right and I think that's that's 285 00:21:06.190 --> 00:21:10.150 the biggest problem with these smaller guys is they're on the truck a lot. 286 00:21:10.390 --> 00:21:14.950 So if they if they need to be on the truck, maybe it's identifying 287 00:21:15.630 --> 00:21:18.349 how much do I need to be on the truck and then I'm only on 288 00:21:18.470 --> 00:21:22.299 the truck that much and the rest of the time I'm fully focused on developing 289 00:21:22.380 --> 00:21:26.380 the business and developing the program and many of those companies can't do that. 290 00:21:26.460 --> 00:21:30.259 They can't afford it. And so that's really why I branched out into doing 291 00:21:30.299 --> 00:21:36.009 safety consulting, going from insurance to the insurance world in the transportation management world, 292 00:21:36.049 --> 00:21:40.250 because there's a huge gap, there's there's a need in capacity. So 293 00:21:40.769 --> 00:21:44.289 if you can't get off the truck and build it yourself, you need to 294 00:21:44.329 --> 00:21:48.240 go find somebody that can, and and that's you're going to have to make 295 00:21:48.319 --> 00:21:52.240 the investment. That will save you the thirty million dollar lawsuit down the road. 296 00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:56.960 It really will. You know, there's there's there's tons of resources out 297 00:21:56.960 --> 00:22:03.029 there you can tap into that aren't that expensive and I think, I think 298 00:22:03.069 --> 00:22:07.230 it's just getting to the point of having kind of swallowing your pride a little 299 00:22:07.230 --> 00:22:10.109 bit and saying I need help, I can't do this on my own. 300 00:22:10.150 --> 00:22:14.390 I can't. I can't full afford a hundred thousand dollar safety manager, and 301 00:22:14.430 --> 00:22:18.299 I recognize that, but I need to go spend something on my safety program 302 00:22:18.460 --> 00:22:21.900 so I can lower my insurance rates. I can get out of the Progressive 303 00:22:21.980 --> 00:22:26.220 Insurance World and get into some of the more reputable insurance plans out there, 304 00:22:26.700 --> 00:22:30.769 so my premiums are much lowered. I'm not paying thirtyzero a year per truck 305 00:22:32.329 --> 00:22:36.529 for Insurance and I'm can I can spend eighteenzero a year per truck. I 306 00:22:36.650 --> 00:22:40.490 think. I think that's that's the biggest problem is I come out as a 307 00:22:40.569 --> 00:22:44.839 new business owner and I'm prideful, I don't need help, I can do 308 00:22:44.960 --> 00:22:47.759 this, I can build it. Next thing you know I'm thirty trucks in, 309 00:22:47.880 --> 00:22:51.680 I'm having a doot audit or I've had my first fatality and I have 310 00:22:51.799 --> 00:22:55.079 no clue how to how to overcome it and all of a sudden now safety 311 00:22:55.160 --> 00:22:57.279 is important. When I have that fatality when it should have been important. 312 00:22:57.400 --> 00:23:02.150 Too late. It's too lately. Yeah, right, the ships sailed at 313 00:23:02.150 --> 00:23:04.349 the well and you've lost so much money in that process and you've lost so 314 00:23:04.430 --> 00:23:07.990 many drivers. Like if you just build it right from the start, and 315 00:23:08.029 --> 00:23:12.220 I see clients all the time that that are on both sides. I have 316 00:23:12.339 --> 00:23:17.539 one that's, you know, wanting to build it really fast and and you 317 00:23:17.660 --> 00:23:22.819 know, throw everything in and and, you know, and grow really fast 318 00:23:22.140 --> 00:23:26.890 before the programs fully set and fully developed. And I have one that's really 319 00:23:26.970 --> 00:23:30.089 small. It's like no, I need to develop my program and they're completely 320 00:23:30.170 --> 00:23:34.490 different companies and you can tell that the culture is going to be entirely different. 321 00:23:34.970 --> 00:23:38.210 The retention of drivers for the smaller one is going to be higher than 322 00:23:38.250 --> 00:23:42.119 it is for the larger one because they're they're just not they're not building at 323 00:23:42.160 --> 00:23:45.680 the same you got to make it a priority from the start, and I've 324 00:23:45.960 --> 00:23:49.400 I've always thought, John that if you're one of the small business owners who's 325 00:23:49.440 --> 00:23:55.079 constantly on the truck and you're working in eighteen hour day every day, the 326 00:23:55.200 --> 00:23:57.430 reason that you're doing that is this is not an easy business to make a 327 00:23:57.509 --> 00:24:02.349 living in. Right. This is a pennies business per mile and you have 328 00:24:02.509 --> 00:24:06.029 to go get on that truck because you need to run those additional miles to 329 00:24:06.150 --> 00:24:10.339 make those additional pennies to cover your expenses. And so there seems to be 330 00:24:10.539 --> 00:24:12.700 this hump that you have to get over, right, and I think it 331 00:24:12.940 --> 00:24:15.259 for you, what you just said hit the nail on the head. It 332 00:24:15.420 --> 00:24:19.579 comes back to culture, right, like at some point you have to work 333 00:24:19.700 --> 00:24:25.650 on the business, you have to build this culture and and maybe that's some 334 00:24:25.849 --> 00:24:30.329 combination of of here's who we are and what we do and how we do 335 00:24:30.569 --> 00:24:33.089 it, and how we do it is safe, right, and and at 336 00:24:33.170 --> 00:24:38.319 some point, as a business owner, you can experience some sustainable growth, 337 00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:45.559 right, that all of a sudden starts to free up your time, and 338 00:24:45.960 --> 00:24:49.200 I think that that's what you're seeing with that customer of yours who is smaller, 339 00:24:49.319 --> 00:24:52.829 who says, I don't want to grow anymore. I want to focus 340 00:24:52.910 --> 00:24:57.990 on my systems and processes so that when I do grow, I'm growing sustainably 341 00:24:59.109 --> 00:25:03.150 and for the long haul and I'm not going to burn myself out, burn 342 00:25:03.230 --> 00:25:07.259 my team out, kill my drivers, you know, for the sake of 343 00:25:07.339 --> 00:25:11.940 adding tim more trucks to the yeah, absolutely, and that that whole mentality 344 00:25:12.059 --> 00:25:18.339 is actually helped him procure some really good insurance. He's ten trucks and he 345 00:25:18.539 --> 00:25:22.730 is with one of the best insurance companies that I know that exists in the 346 00:25:22.930 --> 00:25:26.250 in the in the nation, and you don't you don't typically see that. 347 00:25:26.369 --> 00:25:30.490 You don't typically see a ten truck guy with a great west or a national 348 00:25:30.609 --> 00:25:37.960 interstate insurance. You see them with progressive and and this this this particular customer 349 00:25:38.079 --> 00:25:44.039 is he's with great west and it's incredible to see what he's been able to 350 00:25:44.119 --> 00:25:47.480 develop and what he's been able to build, and it's because of that safety 351 00:25:47.480 --> 00:25:52.109 culture mentality. He's he is. He's focused on building this program, properly, 352 00:25:52.150 --> 00:25:56.069 paying his drivers the right way, treating them the way they should be 353 00:25:56.109 --> 00:26:00.029 treated, but then also holding them accountable, and they need to be held 354 00:26:00.029 --> 00:26:04.619 accountable and and I think that's the difference between you know him and some of 355 00:26:04.660 --> 00:26:10.339 these other ninety seven percenters out there that are just throwing trucks on the roadway 356 00:26:10.380 --> 00:26:14.380 and grabbing freight and hoping for the best. Yeah, right. So, 357 00:26:14.700 --> 00:26:18.650 so if if somebody's listening to this podcast and saying, you know, my 358 00:26:18.049 --> 00:26:22.369 maybe I have a safety program, maybe I'm not entirely happy with it, 359 00:26:22.769 --> 00:26:23.849 or maybe I don't have one and all, I'm going to build one. 360 00:26:25.690 --> 00:26:29.609 What? What can they do to screw it up? What what is like? 361 00:26:29.769 --> 00:26:33.880 The big mistakes that when you're thinking about an implementing your safety program you 362 00:26:33.920 --> 00:26:38.400 should avoid it not including your drivers in the development process. Your drivers are 363 00:26:38.440 --> 00:26:45.079 your biggest advocate for your safety program make them party or development. If you're 364 00:26:45.079 --> 00:26:48.829 not having conversations with your drivers about what are they see on the roadway and 365 00:26:48.910 --> 00:26:52.710 what would they like to see from you as a company owner when it comes 366 00:26:52.710 --> 00:26:59.029 to safety, you're doing a huge to service. Include your drivers in that 367 00:26:59.230 --> 00:27:03.460 process every time. You know, I help customers all across the nation, 368 00:27:03.019 --> 00:27:07.579 you know, build these programs and the first thing I do is meet with 369 00:27:07.579 --> 00:27:11.180 their drivers and have conversations. What are you seeing? What are the problems? 370 00:27:11.259 --> 00:27:15.380 What exists? What would you like to see more of? Creating committees 371 00:27:15.420 --> 00:27:18.410 where the drivers come in and tell you this is how I want my cameras 372 00:27:18.490 --> 00:27:21.930 to be managed, and then we developed the camera program to be managed that 373 00:27:22.049 --> 00:27:25.809 way. It's their program. If you make it their program, you'll never 374 00:27:25.890 --> 00:27:29.210 have a driver tell you I'm not going to do that. Most of them 375 00:27:29.250 --> 00:27:33.359 will follow exactly what you built because it was their program it was their ideas. 376 00:27:33.799 --> 00:27:37.759 Now you can you can coax them and push them and coach them into 377 00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:41.920 the direction you'd like to go, but let them come up with the ideas 378 00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:45.509 on how it should be managed. Every time I build a safety program it's 379 00:27:45.829 --> 00:27:51.269 it was most effective because drivers were involved in that program and that's a huge 380 00:27:51.269 --> 00:27:53.430 mistake I see all across we we build these policies and then cramming down the 381 00:27:53.430 --> 00:27:57.109 driver's throat and then we wonder why they quit, like why'd you leave me? 382 00:27:57.940 --> 00:28:02.539 Because you didn't listen to them. You know, if you pay attention 383 00:28:02.619 --> 00:28:07.339 and listen to your drivers, they know what needs to be done on the 384 00:28:07.380 --> 00:28:11.140 roadway and they'll help you build that program hmm, that's yeah, that's that's 385 00:28:11.220 --> 00:28:15.369 really good advice. That's a that's a great tip. Right, listen to 386 00:28:15.450 --> 00:28:21.410 the team and and and hopefully build the program that works for you, not 387 00:28:21.690 --> 00:28:29.720 necessarily just ram and jam something onto your drivers and and have to continue adapting 388 00:28:29.839 --> 00:28:33.119 it. And Yeah, let's get it right, let's talk to the drivers. 389 00:28:33.240 --> 00:28:36.279 That's that's great feedback. So, John, I you know, I 390 00:28:37.039 --> 00:28:40.319 really appreciate the insides. Today. I think we've covered a lot of ground 391 00:28:40.359 --> 00:28:45.869 and we've really found some unique points of view here on safety in the industry 392 00:28:45.950 --> 00:28:49.549 and retention and a whole lot of things. I think that can really benefit 393 00:28:49.670 --> 00:28:53.589 a trucking a trucking company. What I would like to do it. I 394 00:28:53.750 --> 00:28:56.259 want to know, John, what what do you have on your mind? 395 00:28:56.460 --> 00:29:00.779 What's the one thing that you have your eye on over the road forward the 396 00:29:00.900 --> 00:29:07.460 next twelve months? My I is set on finding as many companies that need 397 00:29:07.619 --> 00:29:12.930 help and and offering them help, help mentoring this industry. We've got to 398 00:29:12.970 --> 00:29:19.250 do better at educating. So my my next twelve months is connecting with as 399 00:29:19.410 --> 00:29:23.359 many companies as I possibly can to help, mentor them and educate them. 400 00:29:23.400 --> 00:29:30.240 Yep, that's seems like that seems like a much needed mission at the current 401 00:29:30.319 --> 00:29:33.640 state of the industry in our discussion today. Well, John, I really 402 00:29:33.640 --> 00:29:36.279 appreciate you being with us. This has been a lot of fun. I 403 00:29:36.559 --> 00:29:40.230 want you to stay on after the recording for the fast five. So for 404 00:29:40.349 --> 00:29:42.150 the listeners if you don't know what the fast five is, every guest we 405 00:29:42.230 --> 00:29:47.670 have on the road forward after the show we ask them five rapid fire questions. 406 00:29:48.349 --> 00:29:52.269 We email their answers out to our email list. So, if you 407 00:29:52.430 --> 00:29:56.619 have not subscribed to our email list, go to the road forward podcastcom. 408 00:29:56.940 --> 00:30:03.180 That is the road forward podcastcom in your email click subscribe and we will send 409 00:30:03.180 --> 00:30:08.490 you John's answers to the fast five questions. So this has been the road 410 00:30:08.529 --> 00:30:12.369 for were broadcast. Flynn hobrook here is your host. As we part for 411 00:30:12.450 --> 00:30:15.490 the day, I want you just to keep in mind that the industry is 412 00:30:15.609 --> 00:30:22.640 changing very rapidly and just remember that you really need to sit back think strategically 413 00:30:22.680 --> 00:30:26.200 about you and your company's rode forward. John, thank you so much for 414 00:30:26.240 --> 00:30:30.200 joining us today. Yeah, thanks for having me. All right, bye, 415 00:30:30.279 --> 00:30:34.710 bye. If you manage a truck fleet, you go to bed every 416 00:30:34.789 --> 00:30:38.750 night driving that three am phone call, because that call is never a good 417 00:30:38.829 --> 00:30:41.990 one. Either your drivers tell you they have a flat tire and the shipment's 418 00:30:41.990 --> 00:30:45.789 delayed, or they were shut down and take it it at the way station. 419 00:30:45.029 --> 00:30:48.670 If the thought of those middle of the night calls keeps you up at 420 00:30:48.710 --> 00:30:52.299 all hours. Trucks by can help. Trucks by gives managers total visibility into 421 00:30:52.339 --> 00:30:56.259 what's happening on the road. Companies use our hardware to make sure their fleets 422 00:30:56.259 --> 00:31:00.019 are productive and safe, so that managers like you can see in real time 423 00:31:00.220 --> 00:31:03.809 where their trucks are and what they're doing. More trucks make it on time 424 00:31:03.930 --> 00:31:08.650 and without issues or losses, helping you rest easy. Learn more at trucks 425 00:31:08.690 --> 00:31:14.130 by DOT IO. You've been listening to the road forward, the show for 426 00:31:14.250 --> 00:31:18.960 trucking industry that's like you. If you want to hear from other business owners 427 00:31:18.960 --> 00:31:22.000 who've seen trends come and go, all the while building lasting businesses that keep 428 00:31:22.039 --> 00:31:26.160 America running, make sure you're subscribed to catch more episodes. To easily find 429 00:31:26.200 --> 00:31:30.759 the show on your favorite podcast player, go to the road forward podcastcom. 430 00:31:30.960 --> 00:31:33.470 Until next time, keep your eyes on the road forward.