How insurance can make or break you in trucking

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:12.519 M Hm. Hey, welcome back to the road forward podcast. Today we 2 00:00:12.640 --> 00:00:17.640 have Tracy Lange from Higginbotham and you know, since I've had my struggles with 3 00:00:17.719 --> 00:00:21.120 insurance in my own carrier company, this was a really, really good one 4 00:00:21.160 --> 00:00:24.079 where I got to ask all of the difficult questions. So I hope you 5 00:00:24.199 --> 00:00:26.960 enjoy so we'll just jump right into it. So, Um, so, 6 00:00:27.120 --> 00:00:31.000 how long I've been selling insurance? Since two thousand okay, so twenty two 7 00:00:31.079 --> 00:00:34.320 years. Twenty two years a long time. I'm twenty nine, so basically, 8 00:00:34.479 --> 00:00:38.000 and all I've done is transportation insurance, the hope and that's it. 9 00:00:38.439 --> 00:00:43.920 And you are just like all forty eight states or all fifty states almost. 10 00:00:43.159 --> 00:00:48.159 Yeah, okay, okay, I would love to go right you need an 11 00:00:48.200 --> 00:00:51.520 excuse to travel out there. Got gotta set up the new office over there, 12 00:00:51.600 --> 00:00:56.640 darning and Um, okay. And so just just transportation. So like 13 00:00:56.960 --> 00:01:00.600 trucking, that kind of staff, anything that requires wheels to make a living. 14 00:01:00.640 --> 00:01:03.399 So a lot of people think, for example, like I'm in an 15 00:01:03.439 --> 00:01:06.879 old field, I'm hauling in the old field. Well, I'm I'm an 16 00:01:06.920 --> 00:01:10.599 old field operator. No, you're not. You're a trucking company that provides 17 00:01:11.120 --> 00:01:15.159 equipment and supplies to the old field. Okay, what do you see? 18 00:01:15.480 --> 00:01:21.400 That like mistakes trucking companies make that that causes their insurance like top, top 19 00:01:21.480 --> 00:01:26.799 three or something three, uh, growing too fast and not expanding. There's 20 00:01:26.840 --> 00:01:30.680 their safety and and staff to be able to keep up with that growth. 21 00:01:32.400 --> 00:01:34.159 You know, for example, you know, maybe you start off with ten 22 00:01:34.239 --> 00:01:38.959 trucks and you're doing very well, you're doing a particular or maybe you're all 23 00:01:38.079 --> 00:01:42.280 dry in and then you decide you want to start hauling some cars and I'm 24 00:01:42.280 --> 00:01:46.280 gonna go over here in haulsome fracts and I'm gonna go over here in hould 25 00:01:46.280 --> 00:01:49.560 little crudal. Well, now you're starting to mix a lot of different operations, 26 00:01:49.519 --> 00:01:55.359 and that's just one example. That's a bad choice. Growing too fast, 27 00:01:55.480 --> 00:02:00.879 and I say too fast, growing too fast without a good structure and 28 00:02:01.000 --> 00:02:05.760 explanation that you can give to the insurance company or your agent to be able 29 00:02:05.799 --> 00:02:10.599 to give the insurance company, they're always going to be concerned because and their 30 00:02:10.639 --> 00:02:15.000 main concern is not that you're growing, is that can you keep up with 31 00:02:15.199 --> 00:02:23.159 the safety when you're growing, because now you've got, as most young operations 32 00:02:23.240 --> 00:02:27.520 start out, you're the general manager, you're the safety person. You're probably 33 00:02:27.639 --> 00:02:31.280 driving some. You're also doing some mechanic work, you're doing dispatch, you're 34 00:02:31.319 --> 00:02:37.560 doing pay row, you know. So it's typical, though. Okay, 35 00:02:37.599 --> 00:02:42.919 and now you've got to start at a different level. Now you've got to 36 00:02:42.960 --> 00:02:46.039 start dissecting what you're doing down the road, you know, managing your cash 37 00:02:46.120 --> 00:02:53.759 flow really looking like some of these uh speakers like not only you're early ned 38 00:02:53.919 --> 00:02:57.080 or whatever, but you know what am I really making? You know, 39 00:02:57.199 --> 00:03:00.159 my head of the curb and behind the curb am I looking at it every 40 00:03:00.240 --> 00:03:02.840 week, and something that you should be looking at it every day. So 41 00:03:04.000 --> 00:03:09.599 you know how to basically adjust those financials. That's one of the biggest things. 42 00:03:09.960 --> 00:03:14.919 The other thing I think, uh, you know from my perspective, 43 00:03:15.719 --> 00:03:19.719 when companies are starting out, and I get it they can't really all get 44 00:03:19.800 --> 00:03:24.360 new equipment, but sometimes they buy such old equipment that their maintenance scores are 45 00:03:24.400 --> 00:03:30.120 just out the top as far as the basics. But like if it's old, 46 00:03:30.199 --> 00:03:31.400 like you know, maybe it doesn't have air bags, stuff like that, 47 00:03:31.520 --> 00:03:37.080 doesn't make a big difference right now. So it's just specifically that they 48 00:03:37.639 --> 00:03:40.439 that then affects their doot score, which then gives them a bad score because 49 00:03:40.439 --> 00:03:44.960 they can't. It's always breaking down, which doot loves because, you know, 50 00:03:45.039 --> 00:03:46.879 they write them up, you know, because I mean you know, 51 00:03:46.000 --> 00:03:49.840 there's a thing we also called B L T, you know, and it's 52 00:03:49.840 --> 00:03:53.120 not baking. Let us okay, I was going to it's break lights and 53 00:03:53.199 --> 00:03:55.759 tires. You say that all the time. As far as the major things 54 00:03:55.840 --> 00:04:00.719 that are people are getting tagged on D ot in the maintenance core section brave, 55 00:04:00.800 --> 00:04:04.680 slightes, entires, and the other thing that people are really getting tagged 56 00:04:04.759 --> 00:04:10.639 with is personal conveyance. You know, there are a lot of carriers out 57 00:04:10.719 --> 00:04:13.960 there that if dot you wanted to make a lot of money, could go 58 00:04:14.080 --> 00:04:19.600 in and look at that personal conveyance violations and that's a hefty fun per violation. 59 00:04:20.240 --> 00:04:23.959 Right. I had a I had a somewhat strict no, no personal 60 00:04:24.040 --> 00:04:28.439 conveyance unless subscribed by management. So most like I had very few issues with 61 00:04:28.519 --> 00:04:31.319 that, but I do I am well aware that a lot of people abuse 62 00:04:31.439 --> 00:04:36.199 that Um and so that could be a problem. So, but if my 63 00:04:36.319 --> 00:04:41.800 safety school like I had violations and my my safety score was for for the 64 00:04:41.920 --> 00:04:45.639 vehicle, it was below the national average. So the national averages or something 65 00:04:45.680 --> 00:04:48.560 like that out of service percentage. Mine was at sixteen. Um driver national 66 00:04:48.639 --> 00:04:54.079 average score was, I believe, six point nine and mine was at like 67 00:04:54.360 --> 00:04:58.120 seven something, I think right. A little bit higher on the driver but 68 00:04:58.360 --> 00:05:00.360 lower on the vehicles. Out of service, yes, out of service percentage, 69 00:05:00.439 --> 00:05:03.160 right. So, but, and so, when I went to go 70 00:05:03.279 --> 00:05:09.040 renew the quote, they gave me like almost double, almost double. So 71 00:05:09.079 --> 00:05:14.199 I was paying about four dollars per month per truck and they raised it to 72 00:05:14.519 --> 00:05:17.040 twenty two and some changes. This when you were progressive. Yeah, that 73 00:05:17.240 --> 00:05:21.560 the quote was from progressive. So I was going for to everybody own progressive. 74 00:05:24.000 --> 00:05:27.120 It's the one place that I will not go in quote for anybody. 75 00:05:27.399 --> 00:05:31.160 Why is that? Because progressive, at least in Texas, they don't have 76 00:05:31.399 --> 00:05:34.519 a set standard. So, for and what I mean by that as far 77 00:05:34.600 --> 00:05:40.079 as pricing, I could have written you at ten thousand dollars a year per 78 00:05:40.120 --> 00:05:46.319 truck. You change trucks. I'm talking strictly liability. You change trucks, 79 00:05:46.800 --> 00:05:53.160 are you change drivers? Are you do different trailers or anything? It doesn't 80 00:05:53.199 --> 00:05:58.000 just affect one truck that you changed, it affects the entire quote month to 81 00:05:58.120 --> 00:06:03.000 month. So and that's progressive here in Texas. And Texas. In Arkansas 82 00:06:03.360 --> 00:06:08.199 that's not the case. What they quote cheaper truck use what they can charge 83 00:06:08.240 --> 00:06:11.879 youeper. But they haven't got that in Texas yet. And it's hard, 84 00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:15.319 you know, especially for somebody new. I mean you gotta budget for this, 85 00:06:15.759 --> 00:06:18.319 and if you don't know what your muth cost are, how can you 86 00:06:18.399 --> 00:06:24.279 budget? You know, okay, I'M gonna pick for this. What is 87 00:06:24.360 --> 00:06:29.000 the what's this number going to be? Okay, so and and that's just 88 00:06:29.120 --> 00:06:31.040 like hey, Um, you know, we got rid of this vehicle and 89 00:06:31.120 --> 00:06:35.240 we got this one instead. Similar, making model doesn't matter. It's like 90 00:06:35.319 --> 00:06:41.199 a rewrite for the whole policy all over again. And your drivers saying, 91 00:06:41.240 --> 00:06:44.160 I mean it could be no vehicle change, just driver change. You can't 92 00:06:44.160 --> 00:06:48.680 do that, as I call it, it's the butterfly effect with progressive so 93 00:06:48.839 --> 00:06:51.720 like driver quits, maybe he's been on here, maybe he's been with a 94 00:06:51.759 --> 00:06:55.240 company for a while. Driver quits, you train a new driver, get 95 00:06:55.279 --> 00:06:58.839 him in there. They rewrite the whole policy. Basically, when when you 96 00:06:58.879 --> 00:07:02.199 saw this all out rhythm, there's nobody and so this algorithm just looks at 97 00:07:02.240 --> 00:07:05.439 everything. But yeah, but still it basically re quotes the whole thing all 98 00:07:05.519 --> 00:07:11.319 over again and there's a few little nuances with progressive that you can do that 99 00:07:11.639 --> 00:07:15.079 it will get better pressing. Now they have a camera program that you can 100 00:07:15.120 --> 00:07:19.040 better pressing if you provide them with your self security number when you're applying stuff 101 00:07:19.079 --> 00:07:23.519 and they give you a little, uh, financial credit as well so they 102 00:07:23.519 --> 00:07:26.720 can look up your credit writing. But there are a few little things you 103 00:07:26.800 --> 00:07:30.079 get better pressing right, and I've heard some of those. Two. Um, 104 00:07:30.439 --> 00:07:32.600 yeah, because, Um, I didn't have they I didn't have them 105 00:07:32.639 --> 00:07:35.319 in the EEL D for like heart breaks or anything like. I had the 106 00:07:35.399 --> 00:07:39.639 Yeld and I had the dash camp, but I didn't set that up. 107 00:07:39.680 --> 00:07:43.560 and Um, but again it was just the price was unreasonable and I asked 108 00:07:43.639 --> 00:07:45.959 him, like line up a line by line, what are he is charging 109 00:07:46.000 --> 00:07:48.959 me for? And like it was that million dollars liability. So even if 110 00:07:49.000 --> 00:07:54.240 I got rid of everything like like comprehensive coverage on the trucks, uninsured whatever, 111 00:07:54.439 --> 00:07:56.920 just get rid of everything, cargo, all of it, it would 112 00:07:56.920 --> 00:08:01.720 only save me ten percent because just that million liability is just super expensive, 113 00:08:01.920 --> 00:08:07.439 major cost and you know you're in course of deductible affects that. You know, 114 00:08:07.199 --> 00:08:09.759 I had a thousand dollars deductible. I think I just heard you say 115 00:08:09.920 --> 00:08:13.759 twenty five thous is that what companies are doing? They're just raising the larger 116 00:08:13.839 --> 00:08:18.879 companies argue. I mean larger companies and as ready to define that. Companies 117 00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:22.759 fifty trucks or more, not fifty two hundred, maybe fifty to two hundred. 118 00:08:22.720 --> 00:08:26.279 You know they're not buying first dollar coverage. They're buying five thousand, 119 00:08:26.600 --> 00:08:31.120 fifty thousand, maybe even a hundred thousand dollars if they're two hundred and fifty 120 00:08:31.120 --> 00:08:37.120 trucks deductible for accident, because you know it's in the end. I hate 121 00:08:37.120 --> 00:08:39.960 even saying this because I don't like the term. Having skin in the game. 122 00:08:39.080 --> 00:08:41.039 Is what the insurance companies like to call it, and I'm like, 123 00:08:41.240 --> 00:08:46.399 no, that's basically saying risk transference. That's what that is. I'm transferring 124 00:08:46.440 --> 00:08:50.080 this amount of risk to the company and we will be either our best friend 125 00:08:50.200 --> 00:08:54.799 or the worst enemy. Right. It's definitely not skinning the game. It's 126 00:08:54.799 --> 00:08:56.360 like, at the end of the day, I'm signing for the trucks, 127 00:08:56.399 --> 00:08:58.320 I'm signing for the land, I'm signing to like to put for the drivers 128 00:08:58.360 --> 00:09:01.639 in there. It's like you can't say I don't have any skin in the 129 00:09:01.679 --> 00:09:03.320 game when all of it is on me anyways. Right, yeah, but 130 00:09:03.440 --> 00:09:07.399 you get it. I mean it's there. You're a little more cautious if, 131 00:09:07.720 --> 00:09:09.840 if you have an accident it's just a thousand dollars, then you know 132 00:09:09.919 --> 00:09:13.759 the safety culture. Yeah, maybe it's not that important if I have to 133 00:09:13.759 --> 00:09:16.240 pay a thousand dollars, if I have to come up grand hey, you 134 00:09:16.360 --> 00:09:20.600 better be doing this safe right. That's true. That's a good point. 135 00:09:20.039 --> 00:09:24.799 But when I asked them, because I was working with someone and I asked 136 00:09:24.879 --> 00:09:28.039 him, like, what would be the price difference between a thousand dollars deductible 137 00:09:28.080 --> 00:09:33.159 and it wasn't much, especially if you aren't, if you're not having frequency 138 00:09:33.279 --> 00:09:37.720 of claims, then the deductible change is really not going to help you. 139 00:09:37.279 --> 00:09:43.720 When you have some frequency, not horrendous frequency that's been happening over there, 140 00:09:43.879 --> 00:09:46.879 be considered some frequency, once every six months. Yeah, let's say, 141 00:09:48.360 --> 00:09:52.120 uh, let's say you're having three or four claims for a fifteen truck account. 142 00:09:52.159 --> 00:09:56.080 They're not severe, but you're having three or four claims a year, 143 00:09:56.200 --> 00:10:00.679 maybe five, and what's not severe under of you know, let's say, 144 00:10:00.919 --> 00:10:03.919 you know, not severe. Maybe they're five, ten, fifteen thousand dollar 145 00:10:03.000 --> 00:10:09.080 claims, stuff that's under you know, that's fairly small amounts. Then that's 146 00:10:09.120 --> 00:10:11.720 not as big an issue, particularly if that's just compempolation. Now if those 147 00:10:11.759 --> 00:10:16.960 are third party wrecked where you got somebody else involved, and it starts raising 148 00:10:16.000 --> 00:10:20.320 the flag even more because, you know, then they're putting that million dollars 149 00:10:20.360 --> 00:10:24.200 at risk out there, you know, because they're you know, trucks, 150 00:10:24.279 --> 00:10:28.000 I say, and you're getting your charged twenty thousand. You know, that's 151 00:10:28.039 --> 00:10:33.080 three K. They pay out a million dollars. They're still upside down. 152 00:10:33.519 --> 00:10:35.240 I won't take that investment any day of the week. Right, exactly. 153 00:10:37.399 --> 00:10:41.879 Yeah, and I mean most of our issues was like drivers would maybe overtighten 154 00:10:41.960 --> 00:10:43.600 the load and it would break and it would damage the load and so then 155 00:10:43.639 --> 00:10:48.000 the load. Well, I only had one accident where a driver hit another 156 00:10:48.120 --> 00:10:50.240 vehicle one and that was the only one we did a claim on in three 157 00:10:50.360 --> 00:10:54.679 years Um. So, like the lost runs were good and the safety score 158 00:10:54.799 --> 00:10:58.399 was okay. I just didn't it didn't make sense to me that the numbers 159 00:10:58.440 --> 00:11:01.120 didn't line up. But you're saying they don't. Like I think I mentioned 160 00:11:01.159 --> 00:11:05.480 earlier, is that they don't like hot shots. They don't like non CDL 161 00:11:05.759 --> 00:11:09.360 like if it's not an eighteen wieller, they don't work with it. They 162 00:11:09.399 --> 00:11:13.279 don't like work. They don't like it as well. And we've a several 163 00:11:13.360 --> 00:11:18.039 new insurance companies are coming into Texas and, uh, you know, they 164 00:11:18.159 --> 00:11:22.919 really they will do it with the non with the hot shots. It's part 165 00:11:22.960 --> 00:11:26.320 of it, but they really want that to be less than the operation. 166 00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:31.480 Dang, you know. And I only had one semi out of the seventeen. 167 00:11:31.120 --> 00:11:35.480 It was the river, you know, and it's I can't argue with 168 00:11:35.600 --> 00:11:37.279 them. I mean it's, you know, Great West Casualty, century and 169 00:11:37.519 --> 00:11:41.799 trust, national, Innard, state, Hd v I, just to name 170 00:11:41.840 --> 00:11:45.480 a few. And there's a bunch. All those companies don't like that. 171 00:11:46.840 --> 00:11:50.759 Uh You know, it's it's and it's based on statistics. It's not that 172 00:11:50.919 --> 00:11:54.039 they're just somebody in the background said Hey, we don't want to do this. 173 00:11:54.080 --> 00:11:56.440 You know, they have really looked at the numbers, you know, 174 00:11:58.799 --> 00:12:01.960 and all these Manis, for the most part, I mean this is what 175 00:12:01.080 --> 00:12:05.000 they do. They do transportation insurance, you know, and it's not just 176 00:12:05.159 --> 00:12:09.320 for trucking per se. I mean they do it for all the different particles 177 00:12:09.440 --> 00:12:13.799 has Mac carriers, you know, the heavy hull carriers, loggers, etcetera. 178 00:12:15.000 --> 00:12:18.519 It's so they're not they're not dumb, like when they're quoting you high. 179 00:12:18.639 --> 00:12:20.320 It's because it's a lot of risk, you know, and particularly if 180 00:12:20.360 --> 00:12:24.720 you're new, you get it. I mean it's kind of like I got 181 00:12:24.759 --> 00:12:28.120 my pilots listens. So if a few years back, so you know, 182 00:12:28.960 --> 00:12:31.000 I worked for a large insurance company. They wanted, you know, they 183 00:12:31.080 --> 00:12:35.759 wanted all the information on all their pilots that we're in. We're not flying 184 00:12:35.799 --> 00:12:39.759 their planes, but we're flying private planes, and so you get it that. 185 00:12:39.159 --> 00:12:43.360 Oh well, somebody's got ten years experience flying a plane, they're probably 186 00:12:43.399 --> 00:12:50.039 safer than Tracy with a hundred hours, but kind of get those hours up, 187 00:12:50.120 --> 00:12:52.200 Tracy, okay, and I agree with that. You know, that's 188 00:12:52.279 --> 00:12:54.440 experiencing working too much. Okay, you need to go flying more. That's 189 00:12:56.200 --> 00:13:01.720 it costs money. Okay, man, that it makes sense. And so 190 00:13:01.039 --> 00:13:07.840 any recommendations for like, because the numbers were I was watching a recent article. 191 00:13:07.080 --> 00:13:13.679 Over the past year one was a crazy trucking year and per month new 192 00:13:13.879 --> 00:13:20.840 motor carriers were activating their authority a month and the average normally is about ten 193 00:13:20.360 --> 00:13:26.120 a month. So this past year double the amount of carriers we're getting into 194 00:13:26.399 --> 00:13:31.919 trucking versus before, and so it's like any recommendations? Some of that is 195 00:13:31.000 --> 00:13:35.279 changing, by the way, because the loads have kind of started slow down 196 00:13:35.320 --> 00:13:37.559 and so a lot of carriers are going out of business now. But any 197 00:13:37.639 --> 00:13:41.320 recommendations for new carriers that are just starting to get into it? Would like 198 00:13:41.399 --> 00:13:45.720 have a good credit score. Um, try to take advantage of every savings. 199 00:13:46.360 --> 00:13:48.559 Yeah, I mean, you know, first off, you know, 200 00:13:48.120 --> 00:13:52.799 I would say find you a partner, whoever that is, if it's Higginbotham, 201 00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:58.399 whoever. Go find you an interview them. Find you a good expert. 202 00:13:58.879 --> 00:14:03.720 Don't go to Moma and pop shop and you know in Tyler that can 203 00:14:03.799 --> 00:14:07.559 write you a policy, but that's not their nuance, that's not what they 204 00:14:07.679 --> 00:14:11.600 do, it's not what they feed their families with. Is that your your 205 00:14:11.679 --> 00:14:18.279 company name? Insurance? Okay, so you want to find just don't find 206 00:14:18.320 --> 00:14:22.120 a general insurance person, find a specialist. Find a specialist. You know, 207 00:14:22.320 --> 00:14:24.759 it's kind of like do you want to go to the family practice doctor 208 00:14:24.840 --> 00:14:28.799 when you have a heart attack or would you raally go to cardiologist? Okay, 209 00:14:28.200 --> 00:14:31.679 that's a that's a good, good advice. Okay. Second thing. 210 00:14:31.240 --> 00:14:37.399 So go to them, kind of get your business plan together. Check all 211 00:14:37.480 --> 00:14:41.639 your cost you know what's it going to cost for tires, fuel, driver 212 00:14:41.879 --> 00:14:43.399 turned over, all that sort of stuff if you're going to be other than 213 00:14:43.480 --> 00:14:46.080 just your own one truck. But still you need to know all that. 214 00:14:46.960 --> 00:14:50.759 Set up a financial plan for you to move forward with, because if you 215 00:14:50.799 --> 00:14:54.320 don't have that it's just like throwing spitballs against the wall. You don't know 216 00:14:54.399 --> 00:14:58.559 what your results are going to be. And will insurance ask for that plan? 217 00:14:58.799 --> 00:15:01.720 When you write when they just don't care. They don't care. But 218 00:15:01.879 --> 00:15:05.480 the fact that your agent knows that. The thing that a lot of agents 219 00:15:05.600 --> 00:15:09.600 do is that they just won't data. How many trucks do you have here? 220 00:15:09.720 --> 00:15:11.679 What you'R if to? You know, as new you're not going to 221 00:15:11.799 --> 00:15:13.600 know all this, but you're going to estimate. But if you're an established 222 00:15:13.679 --> 00:15:18.279 business, you know here's your equipment list, driver's list, your if does 223 00:15:18.120 --> 00:15:22.799 your financials, your lost runs, and they put all that together. Depend 224 00:15:22.840 --> 00:15:26.879 on their expertise. With that, you know when you do an evaluation of 225 00:15:26.960 --> 00:15:31.759 all that, are you growing or expanding, or more profitable, less profitable, 226 00:15:31.480 --> 00:15:35.159 and then they'll just send that in with the applications to the insurance companies, 227 00:15:35.200 --> 00:15:37.720 get your quote. Well, think about it. And then the agent, 228 00:15:39.039 --> 00:15:41.799 because you provided all this information up front and you, you've seen knowledgeable 229 00:15:41.879 --> 00:15:45.000 like you actually care about your business. You're not trying to just get in 230 00:15:45.039 --> 00:15:48.240 there and fly by night, but so the agent would. Then I'll try 231 00:15:48.320 --> 00:15:50.960 to fight for you on on your behalf, because you're you're trying to do 232 00:15:52.039 --> 00:15:54.919 a good job, because you know the agents. Then, if they're doing 233 00:15:54.960 --> 00:16:00.960 their job for whatever markets, will right your business. They will do proposals 234 00:16:00.039 --> 00:16:06.360 to all or applications to all those different companies and get responses back, and 235 00:16:06.480 --> 00:16:08.559 then they can use that information to try to get you the best deal, 236 00:16:10.080 --> 00:16:14.320 because maybe this company over here they have a better partnership with, or this 237 00:16:14.440 --> 00:16:17.919 one, or maybe there's two or three of them then. I mean they 238 00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:23.120 work for you. That's their job. So just putting the data out there, 239 00:16:23.159 --> 00:16:26.200 though, is not going to get you the best numbers. They need 240 00:16:26.279 --> 00:16:27.759 to know your company culture. They need to be able to tell the story. 241 00:16:29.000 --> 00:16:32.799 Who's who, what's the background? Is it a good safety culture? 242 00:16:32.919 --> 00:16:36.519 What are you doing to really make it different than other companies to be safer? 243 00:16:37.039 --> 00:16:37.799 What are you doing with the data? You know, if you've got 244 00:16:37.919 --> 00:16:41.080 cameras and all that, who's looking at it? When are they looking at 245 00:16:41.159 --> 00:16:45.840 it? You know, what's what you're actually is the structure of your company. 246 00:16:45.279 --> 00:16:49.360 All that gets you the best pricing, okay, and so you you 247 00:16:49.639 --> 00:16:53.480 give this to your agent and then he can then explain that to the underwriters 248 00:16:53.559 --> 00:16:56.519 or whatever and say, Hey, look we got, here's the systems in 249 00:16:56.600 --> 00:17:00.440 place they have for footage review when there's a violation or something, and here's 250 00:17:00.440 --> 00:17:03.599 the action we take. You know, and it even comes down to different 251 00:17:03.640 --> 00:17:07.119 type of camera vendors. You know, I heard somebody say today that they 252 00:17:07.160 --> 00:17:11.680 had to keep trucking cameras and I'm like, oh my goodness, doesn't be 253 00:17:11.839 --> 00:17:15.319 good, not very good. That's what I have had, kind of the 254 00:17:15.400 --> 00:17:18.319 worst camera that you could buy personally, but they plugged right into the e 255 00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:22.240 L D. So it's just Soda, Sam Sarah, okay, that's true. 256 00:17:22.559 --> 00:17:25.720 That's true. And they've got a I built in, so you can 257 00:17:25.839 --> 00:17:30.039 get immediate feedback on drivers. You can actually try to make them better with 258 00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:33.000 that. You know some and they can be coached with that, even where 259 00:17:33.039 --> 00:17:37.480 they are, so that they're following too closely, they bust a red light, 260 00:17:37.720 --> 00:17:41.200 they're not watching when traffics coming on to interstate, all those different things. 261 00:17:41.880 --> 00:17:48.359 That's something that's that's valuable. Um, you know, sometimes older drivers 262 00:17:48.440 --> 00:17:52.680 are hard to coach. That would be me. Yeah, I'VE BEEN DRIPPING 263 00:17:52.680 --> 00:17:56.000 SIGN I've been driving for thirty years. I don't like all that technology. 264 00:17:56.119 --> 00:18:00.960 You're not putting the camera here and watching me right, that's fair, you 265 00:18:00.039 --> 00:18:03.920 know. But still you want to have those policies in place so that you 266 00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:06.279 can explain to the driver, Hey, here's how we're doing it, because 267 00:18:06.519 --> 00:18:08.119 that helps us on your insurance and that helps us. That helps us pay 268 00:18:08.119 --> 00:18:11.160 you more and that keeps you employed. We can give you more bonuses because 269 00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:14.960 you're safer. And you know what, will he even incentivize you to do 270 00:18:15.079 --> 00:18:18.680 all that because you if you're safer, then that helps us. It helps 271 00:18:18.759 --> 00:18:22.920 us all collectively as a company. And then I can give you bonuses for 272 00:18:22.160 --> 00:18:26.400 different things. And there are plenty insurance carriers out there. They're starting to 273 00:18:26.440 --> 00:18:29.960 do that as part of the package. Okay, and so that would be 274 00:18:30.599 --> 00:18:33.720 uh, the second, maybe third thing, which is make sure you have 275 00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:37.240 your plan written out and make sure you focus on safety. Um, any 276 00:18:37.359 --> 00:18:41.599 any other suggestions for newer carriers that are just starting to Um, just starting 277 00:18:41.599 --> 00:18:42.839 to get in? You know, taught with a lot of the people that 278 00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:47.079 you know. You Know Network, get with other carriers and see what their 279 00:18:47.119 --> 00:18:51.200 mistakes have been as they've gone through it. You know, as a new 280 00:18:51.319 --> 00:18:53.359 carrier, there's very, very few people that are gonna write you. You're 281 00:18:53.400 --> 00:18:59.920 pretty much progressive. NACHO or Barkshire Hathaway, which is still Nacho, right, 282 00:19:00.319 --> 00:19:04.640 navigators, you know, and that's that's about it. So, you 283 00:19:04.720 --> 00:19:07.680 know, a lot of carriers are paying eighteen, twenty dollars. I heard 284 00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:12.079 a guy speaking here today is playing eighteen thousand dollars per unit. Right. 285 00:19:12.599 --> 00:19:17.079 I mean four hundred times ten is fourteen thousand plus three. So I was 286 00:19:17.079 --> 00:19:19.720 paying seventeen thousand per unit. I don't know how people make it with that, 287 00:19:21.319 --> 00:19:23.240 right, I just I don't. I look at the numbers then locked. 288 00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:27.400 Well, but it's not just small companies, because I mean before like 289 00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:33.799 big companies go out of business pretty often too, and oftentimes they cite insurance, 290 00:19:33.240 --> 00:19:37.759 but I don't know if that's correct. But still, like insurance plays 291 00:19:37.799 --> 00:19:40.000 a big role, even if you do have a hundred trucks, right, 292 00:19:40.160 --> 00:19:45.200 yeah, and you you really it. My background where I got into this 293 00:19:45.400 --> 00:19:48.359 was in the hospital. Right before I got into insurance, I went and 294 00:19:48.400 --> 00:19:53.039 become a certified financial planner. So it's got you've got to pay attention to 295 00:19:53.160 --> 00:19:57.279 financials. Cash flow is king. So, you know, as you get 296 00:19:57.319 --> 00:20:00.920 to where you're a bigger carrier and have more experience, then you want to 297 00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:03.720 find some insurance. This is my opinion, with an insurance company that will 298 00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:07.640 allow you to have a reporting form, because most people will. Can you 299 00:20:07.759 --> 00:20:11.279 report that directly to the insurance? You report that direct well, directly to 300 00:20:11.400 --> 00:20:15.519 the UH, to the agent which sends it to the Insurance Company, for 301 00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:18.279 example, and so, based on that then they can say like, Oh, 302 00:20:18.359 --> 00:20:22.079 you guys are doing good financially when you're less risk for us. Essentially 303 00:20:22.440 --> 00:20:26.200 it's so what we're doing is we're saying, okay, you've got this many 304 00:20:26.240 --> 00:20:29.839 trucks, you've got these drivers and here's the value of your equipment. So 305 00:20:30.279 --> 00:20:34.319 every month you're turning to report I ran this number of miles, here are 306 00:20:34.359 --> 00:20:38.440 the values and you've got a rate, whether it's, you know, one 307 00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:42.000 percent to percent of your physical damage values. That you multiply and you pay 308 00:20:42.119 --> 00:20:45.960 that percentage in you've got a mileage rate for all your trucks. I ran 309 00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:49.039 this many miles. You multiply that times. You're a hundred per hundred miles 310 00:20:49.160 --> 00:20:53.279 and you pay that. So rather than having to finance something or even paid 311 00:20:53.319 --> 00:20:59.079 directly, as your business fluxes up and down with miles, then your premium 312 00:20:59.119 --> 00:21:02.720 fluxes up in with miles on a liability portion. Okay. So it's like 313 00:21:02.839 --> 00:21:07.680 insurance based on permanent exposure, exposure, okay. And so some insurance companies 314 00:21:07.759 --> 00:21:11.359 do that. When you're bigger, when you're a bigger, when you're bigger 315 00:21:11.400 --> 00:21:15.359 there's multiple protective which I saw represented here DMC, Great West, national, 316 00:21:15.440 --> 00:21:21.160 interstate, century, I mean htv, I, a bunch of them. 317 00:21:21.400 --> 00:21:23.599 I see. It's the small guys. It's sucks and being small. Okay. 318 00:21:23.880 --> 00:21:26.519 The goal to see it from one to one hundred real quick and then 319 00:21:26.640 --> 00:21:30.279 from there the doors open up for you. Well, even even when you 320 00:21:30.359 --> 00:21:37.160 get up to and you get that three years in, then there's a number 321 00:21:37.160 --> 00:21:41.000 of carriers now that have opened up. UH, and I'll mention one. 322 00:21:41.839 --> 00:21:44.960 I'm not just, you know, for all you people out there that are 323 00:21:45.039 --> 00:21:48.759 with other insurance companies represent but a new one that's coming to Texas to where, 324 00:21:48.920 --> 00:21:52.640 if you drive well, you have to put their cameras and stuff in 325 00:21:52.759 --> 00:21:56.519 there. There's some approved vendors if you already have it, but share the 326 00:21:56.599 --> 00:22:00.359 feeds with them. You know, the Apis so they can get the data 327 00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:04.319 and if you're doing a good job you can get up to discount so and 328 00:22:04.519 --> 00:22:07.960 if you get better, you know your rates can go down month to month. 329 00:22:08.039 --> 00:22:14.359 It's not just an annual evaluation. Pretty unique. You know, there's 330 00:22:14.359 --> 00:22:18.200 a lot of insure tech companies coming out that are going and using that type 331 00:22:18.200 --> 00:22:22.000 of technology. Right. who was I talking to there? than a really 332 00:22:22.119 --> 00:22:26.039 new one. They basically charge you. There's a small monthly premium. They 333 00:22:26.119 --> 00:22:30.440 charge you for every day you're on the road. Uh, and so that 334 00:22:30.559 --> 00:22:32.839 was I thought that was pretty neat too, but they didn't. They didn't 335 00:22:32.839 --> 00:22:34.680 again, they didn't do hot shots either. So you know, it's just 336 00:22:34.880 --> 00:22:41.000 like a lot of freight brokerages have problems that we ensure too, that you 337 00:22:41.079 --> 00:22:45.039 know. Um, you know I've got a hundred thousand dollars in coverage, 338 00:22:45.160 --> 00:22:49.119 but I've got a new person that wants me to find some carriers for the 339 00:22:49.240 --> 00:22:53.200 loads and I needed two million dollar coverage for this load and that's not gel. 340 00:22:53.279 --> 00:22:57.240 That's like actually cargo, cargo coverage. You can't get the cargo coverage. 341 00:22:57.279 --> 00:23:00.640 But what they will do, this company, Within About Fifteen, twenty 342 00:23:00.680 --> 00:23:04.720 minutes, they will give you a quote for the shipper. So it's shipper 343 00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:08.160 covered. So you're really covering the property of the shipper and you have to 344 00:23:08.200 --> 00:23:12.079 give them some details where it's going and everything. But, for example, 345 00:23:12.200 --> 00:23:17.799 you might have a seven fifty thousand dollar load that's going from point a to 346 00:23:17.920 --> 00:23:19.640 point B and you might be able to get a quote for that flock. 347 00:23:21.240 --> 00:23:25.079 I don't know, four hundred bucks. Never what you're and that's just a 348 00:23:25.160 --> 00:23:30.000 one time just if you went and got your insurance increased seven it would be 349 00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:34.480 a whole lot more than that. Right, and but that, I believe 350 00:23:34.559 --> 00:23:38.200 that one only covers everything above the hundred thousand of your insurance. Right. 351 00:23:38.240 --> 00:23:41.480 So your insurance, it covers the whole thing, the whole thing, because 352 00:23:41.519 --> 00:23:49.279 it's not cargo insurance, it's shipper coverage. It's a little different and you 353 00:23:49.359 --> 00:23:52.440 can do it and we can do it in Canada, we can do it 354 00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:55.559 the US, we can even do it internationally. We can do it on 355 00:23:55.680 --> 00:24:00.319 air land. See, shippers can get their free covered whenever they're shipping something 356 00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:08.279 expensive. Okay, wow. and Um, any any states in particular that 357 00:24:08.480 --> 00:24:14.160 just are much more reasonable for insurance? Because Texas does seem to be expensive 358 00:24:14.200 --> 00:24:17.519 for insurance. And I don't know, the further north you get, the 359 00:24:18.079 --> 00:24:22.279 least the less expensive. Now I'm not talking about New Jersey or New York 360 00:24:22.599 --> 00:24:26.680 thing, but I'm saying in the middle like red basket area, it's less 361 00:24:26.680 --> 00:24:30.079 expensive. So those trucking companies in Iowa, they're winning, I think so. 362 00:24:32.079 --> 00:24:33.960 But you know, they're still exposed to the same metrics. You know, 363 00:24:34.279 --> 00:24:37.640 how long have you been in business? What are your lost runs like? 364 00:24:37.400 --> 00:24:41.200 You know what's Your Operation Buck? What's your culture? What's your driver 365 00:24:41.359 --> 00:24:45.319 turn over? All these different things that I'm leaving out of you know several, 366 00:24:45.519 --> 00:24:48.079 but all of that effects that. You know, how new is your 367 00:24:48.079 --> 00:24:52.079 equipment? How do you maintain your equipment? What are your basic scores? 368 00:24:52.359 --> 00:24:56.720 You have a green s s score. All of that effects everything. Are 369 00:24:56.759 --> 00:25:02.079 you really you know, look in it violations show up and going in D 370 00:25:02.160 --> 00:25:04.119 Q and them to make sure they come off if they're really not yours or 371 00:25:04.160 --> 00:25:07.759 if they were inaccurate? Yeah, I've tried to D q a couple of 372 00:25:07.839 --> 00:25:11.880 violations and it was always like Nope, nope, that was like three times. 373 00:25:12.480 --> 00:25:15.279 I have to do three times. Have to do it three times, 374 00:25:15.799 --> 00:25:18.799 because I just think about it that if you're going to D Q, the 375 00:25:18.839 --> 00:25:22.799 first time it goes the officer wrote the ticket. Okay, YOU'RE gonna change 376 00:25:22.839 --> 00:25:26.400 his spine. So the next time it goes to his supervisor, which may 377 00:25:26.480 --> 00:25:30.039 or may not, more likely not, and then the third time it goes 378 00:25:30.079 --> 00:25:33.799 to the captain and the captain will actually look into it. But that's that's 379 00:25:33.839 --> 00:25:38.799 of course. If, if, if it is something that's even but something 380 00:25:40.160 --> 00:25:45.400 often times they like. What I've noticed generally speaking is officers for the most 381 00:25:45.480 --> 00:25:48.799 part, will cut you some slack on that they cannot verify right, like 382 00:25:49.279 --> 00:25:52.400 if it's a point of opinion, like Oh, I think this is kind 383 00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:56.640 of this strap is a little bit loose and I think this strap is not 384 00:25:56.720 --> 00:25:59.640 super loose. They'll they'll let that slide, but they'll write up for things 385 00:25:59.680 --> 00:26:00.880 that are on the obvious, like hey, you don't have any breaks right 386 00:26:00.920 --> 00:26:03.680 now. Right, it's clear as day that your tail light is out, 387 00:26:03.759 --> 00:26:07.000 as clear as day, right. So it's like so oftentimes they won't write 388 00:26:07.079 --> 00:26:11.960 up for those little things. But like they more often than not they will 389 00:26:11.000 --> 00:26:15.359 write you up for things that are concrete. It's correct. And that brings 390 00:26:15.480 --> 00:26:22.079 up a thought that I would tell everybody is that, uh, when your 391 00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:29.440 drivers are doing their dvrs, I would bet almost if I don't have the 392 00:26:29.480 --> 00:26:33.400 money with me, but I would bet it pretty much any carrier that if 393 00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:37.119 you brought me your top ten drivers and we put them all through and I 394 00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:41.920 brought my one of my risk consultants and led him, who's driven and knows 395 00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:47.319 everything about it, that nobody could do it right. That's a fair that's 396 00:26:47.359 --> 00:26:49.519 a fair back, you know, and that's a lot of times. I 397 00:26:49.559 --> 00:26:52.920 mean that's where you're getting all those maintenance violations. If the driver would do 398 00:26:53.000 --> 00:26:59.200 the DVR, which you can't do it in five minutes, fifteen minutes minimum 399 00:26:59.279 --> 00:27:03.240 to do a proper VR videoed him right. That's the only reason I know 400 00:27:03.400 --> 00:27:07.839 that. So fifteen minutes, you got to stop somewhere down the road. 401 00:27:08.319 --> 00:27:11.640 Go ahead and do abbreviated dvr when you get down the road. If you 402 00:27:11.720 --> 00:27:17.039 have something that you find later on that's wrong, then you commend that on 403 00:27:17.200 --> 00:27:19.920 your logs and they'll give you some slack. But if you don't do that 404 00:27:21.559 --> 00:27:22.880 and you get found down the road, then you don't get written up. 405 00:27:23.680 --> 00:27:27.200 But even if a driver and does put that on his logs, the violation 406 00:27:27.279 --> 00:27:30.839 doesn't go on the driver. It still goes in the carrier. Yeah, 407 00:27:30.160 --> 00:27:33.279 yeah, but true. And so what do you like, what do you 408 00:27:33.400 --> 00:27:36.799 argue to the captain? Let's say, Hey, my driver did say it 409 00:27:36.839 --> 00:27:38.480 and he was on his way to the shop, and you make something up 410 00:27:38.519 --> 00:27:41.759 that he's on his way. Like, what do you say to the captain 411 00:27:41.839 --> 00:27:45.839 to get the get the data to go through? I don't know, that's 412 00:27:45.880 --> 00:27:48.440 not I don't do that. I'm a salesman. I know I've got a 413 00:27:48.519 --> 00:27:55.200 pretty good safety background and understanding of the operations. But you know, I'm 414 00:27:55.240 --> 00:27:57.559 not gonna say I'm all things to all people. That's beyond me. But 415 00:27:57.920 --> 00:28:02.920 but still, if your drivers are paying attention and they are writing that, 416 00:28:03.559 --> 00:28:07.240 then from there, like you could change operations in the company that maybe they 417 00:28:07.359 --> 00:28:11.599 do realize that the hey, we can fix these things quicker by implementing better 418 00:28:11.720 --> 00:28:17.200 systems, and so from there maybe they will say, Hey, I sent 419 00:28:17.319 --> 00:28:21.039 a message to this to the dispatch. Dispatch sent me to the shop. 420 00:28:21.119 --> 00:28:23.799 I'm literally on my way to the shop and maybe that violation gets prevented to 421 00:28:23.960 --> 00:28:26.519 begin with. Then the officer goes like, okay, great, you're on 422 00:28:26.559 --> 00:28:29.880 your way to the shop to fix it whatever. That's fine, you know, 423 00:28:29.960 --> 00:28:32.839 and there's proof that dispatch did send you to the shop. And I 424 00:28:32.920 --> 00:28:34.440 know a lot of carriers out in West Texas that, I mean, they've 425 00:28:34.519 --> 00:28:37.480 just they've been hit so hard because, I mean, you know, there's 426 00:28:37.480 --> 00:28:41.279 a lot of trucks out there and they're they're looking for they can make money 427 00:28:41.440 --> 00:28:47.640 daily and they've just kind of the conclusion that we're not going to let anybody 428 00:28:47.759 --> 00:28:51.000 drive anywhere. If you because you do not have a problem and you want 429 00:28:51.039 --> 00:28:52.000 to go to the shop to get it repaired, they're just like no, 430 00:28:52.240 --> 00:28:56.440 find the closest repair shop, go there. When it's fixed, you'd call 431 00:28:56.480 --> 00:29:00.880 back and be dispatched still. Then your shut down right right and didn't. 432 00:29:00.920 --> 00:29:04.599 There was an recent article about West Texas that like they checked for cdls and 433 00:29:06.640 --> 00:29:10.799 of the drivers didn't even have cdls and they were operating semis. And then 434 00:29:10.839 --> 00:29:15.319 they came back the next day and again of the drivers didn't have their cdls. 435 00:29:17.880 --> 00:29:21.279 Well, and then there's the B one. Drivers you're always supposed to 436 00:29:21.319 --> 00:29:25.400 want use B one drivers for NAPTA, going to and from NAPTA, and 437 00:29:25.440 --> 00:29:29.480 you've got some people that are like, Oh, I'm holding old field equipment, 438 00:29:29.559 --> 00:29:33.119 surely I can hire b one driver. You can, you shouldn't. 439 00:29:33.240 --> 00:29:38.359 It's not legal. And what does a B one driver? Just Mexican dractor 440 00:29:38.519 --> 00:29:41.920 that's here in the US going from a free trade zone to a free trade 441 00:29:42.039 --> 00:29:47.039 zone. Okay, okay, that's all they're allowed to do, right, 442 00:29:47.359 --> 00:29:51.079 so just that and nothing else. That's correct. MM HMM. Wow, 443 00:29:51.200 --> 00:29:53.480 so there's so you really need to stay on top of your stuff if you 444 00:29:53.519 --> 00:29:57.759 want to be even remotely any kind of decent sized carrier for the long run. 445 00:29:57.799 --> 00:30:00.480 You gotta stay on top of your stuf. You got to stay on 446 00:30:00.559 --> 00:30:04.839 maintenance. Get with a good agency, good agent. You know, somebody 447 00:30:04.920 --> 00:30:11.799 that's not gonna you know just powder code or about you know lesson what's really 448 00:30:11.880 --> 00:30:15.680 important. Somebody to be honest with you, but can help you try to 449 00:30:15.759 --> 00:30:18.559 develop that. You know a lot of insurance. I just just want to 450 00:30:18.599 --> 00:30:22.799 sell you insurance. They get a commission, so the higher the premium the 451 00:30:22.839 --> 00:30:26.319 better it is for them. Almost right. Yeah, well, just I 452 00:30:26.400 --> 00:30:30.400 don't know that. There's a lot with necessarily with that attude. But if 453 00:30:30.440 --> 00:30:33.920 you're not providing something o than insurance, if you're not helping people with their 454 00:30:33.960 --> 00:30:38.720 policies and procedures, their risks, you know, helping drivers do the DVR, 455 00:30:38.839 --> 00:30:41.599 somebody can go out and help them do that. If you're an oil 456 00:30:41.680 --> 00:30:47.480 field doing some training for h two s, things of that nature, that 457 00:30:47.640 --> 00:30:52.279 you've got somebody qualified to do it. That should all be something that they're 458 00:30:52.319 --> 00:30:59.039 providing, because insurance is commodity, right, all those other services are more 459 00:30:59.160 --> 00:31:03.200 personal and you get to know the companies and you can actually, you know, 460 00:31:03.400 --> 00:31:06.720 customize something to help him out, because it's not one size fits all. 461 00:31:07.039 --> 00:31:11.359 Right, right, yeah, that makes sense. Like selling the insurance 462 00:31:11.400 --> 00:31:15.400 shouldn't be the core business. It's just you actually trying to help and care 463 00:31:15.440 --> 00:31:18.960 about the carriers that they do a good job and remain in business as safely 464 00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:22.000 as possible, which will you know, I'll go and pull my safety consulting 465 00:31:22.039 --> 00:31:25.799 along with me and go see somebody, even if I don't ensure him, 466 00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:30.000 because the whole idea is to make the whole system cyber right, right, 467 00:31:30.039 --> 00:31:33.720 because you don't know by giving that truck or a quote, maybe he's not 468 00:31:33.799 --> 00:31:37.160 ready that then you know, there's an accident down the line and that results 469 00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:41.200 in unfortunate news for the family involved. Um. So, yeah, well, 470 00:31:41.480 --> 00:31:44.519 well, Tracy, I appreciating the time, man. Thank you, 471 00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:45.680 thank you so much. Um. You know, I was, like I 472 00:31:45.720 --> 00:31:48.400 said, I was a motor carrier, so I had my own questions about 473 00:31:48.440 --> 00:31:52.000 insurance. So this is really cool and so I will definitely give it a 474 00:31:52.319 --> 00:31:53.960 you know, I know I some of the stuff you mentioned. I didn't 475 00:31:53.960 --> 00:31:56.640 do super well. So I would definitely, if I do plan to renew 476 00:31:56.680 --> 00:31:59.920 down the road, I would definitely look into those things. I appreciate it, 477 00:32:00.039 --> 00:32:09.160 no problem. Awesome. That's going to be for this one. M HM