Fixing Culture & Management Problems to Retain Drivers w/ Jeff Karr

WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.000 --> 00:00:06.960 Welcome to the road forward, a podcast for trucking industry leaders. This is 2 00:00:07.000 --> 00:00:10.679 the show for industry that's like you, hard working, honest leaders who know 3 00:00:10.759 --> 00:00:16.359 there's promise around the next bend and exciting future for the trucking industry and a 4 00:00:16.480 --> 00:00:20.079 chance for your company to thrive. If you see the opportunity ahead but don't 5 00:00:20.120 --> 00:00:23.199 want to travel the tough road alone, join us, as we talked with 6 00:00:23.239 --> 00:00:27.480 business leaders finding their way forward and a changing industry. Let's get into the 7 00:00:27.519 --> 00:00:31.879 show. Welcome to the road forward. I'm your host for today, Flint 8 00:00:31.960 --> 00:00:37.560 Hole Brook. I've Got Jeff Carr with me from Transport Risk Management Consultants. 9 00:00:37.600 --> 00:00:42.719 They provide safety and management consulting to the trucking industry. I got the new 10 00:00:42.799 --> 00:00:46.560 Jeff just a little bit last week, or the week before last actually. 11 00:00:46.600 --> 00:00:50.600 He has fresh off of vacation, so well rested and we're going to get 12 00:00:50.600 --> 00:00:54.079 a lot out of him in today's conversation. So he gave me this thought. 13 00:00:54.159 --> 00:00:59.119 He said there's no driver shortage, there is only a culture and management 14 00:00:59.240 --> 00:01:02.200 shortage. So, Jeff, thanks for joining me today. No, I 15 00:01:02.240 --> 00:01:03.879 appreciate it. Thanks for having me flat it's my pleasure. So, look, 16 00:01:03.920 --> 00:01:07.400 I want to dive into this thought a little bit. There's no driver 17 00:01:07.519 --> 00:01:10.879 shortage, there is only a culture and management shortage. What do you mean 18 00:01:10.920 --> 00:01:12.239 by that? Yeah, so what I mean by that, and I've had 19 00:01:12.280 --> 00:01:17.959 this discussion multiple times with multiple people, that is that the driver shortage is 20 00:01:17.959 --> 00:01:21.280 not as prevalent as people may think, that it is. Good drivers are 21 00:01:21.359 --> 00:01:26.200 leaving bad companies. And what I mean by bad companies is not that you 22 00:01:26.280 --> 00:01:30.840 have a horribly run organization, but more companies that don't have a a direction 23 00:01:30.079 --> 00:01:34.680 or a mission or vision and values for their people. Right. You know, 24 00:01:34.760 --> 00:01:37.640 you have to have a direction when it comes to the type of business 25 00:01:37.640 --> 00:01:40.680 that you run, but you also need to have direction when it comes to 26 00:01:40.719 --> 00:01:44.680 the type of people that you have working with you, the type of attitude, 27 00:01:44.719 --> 00:01:47.719 the type of the way that you portray yourself. That all of that 28 00:01:47.799 --> 00:01:52.599 makes is something that the drivers really look at and really pay attention to when 29 00:01:52.680 --> 00:01:56.519 choosing an organization. And if they don't feel like it's a great company, 30 00:01:56.560 --> 00:02:00.120 they don't feel like their voices being heard or that maybe you have a mission, 31 00:02:00.200 --> 00:02:04.159 vision and value that you don't live up to, or you don't have 32 00:02:04.200 --> 00:02:07.120 a mission or a vision or values for your organization. They're not going to 33 00:02:07.120 --> 00:02:10.719 stick around, and so that's really what I mean by that. Interesting. 34 00:02:10.759 --> 00:02:15.520 Interesting, so it's good people leaving bad companies. Can we dive into that 35 00:02:15.560 --> 00:02:20.080 just a little bit, Jeff, what do you mean by a bad company? 36 00:02:20.120 --> 00:02:25.199 Do you mean that they haven't formally established what their mission, vision values 37 00:02:25.240 --> 00:02:30.039 are and driven that through the organization? Are you saying this is kind of 38 00:02:30.039 --> 00:02:36.360 a haphazard company? That isn't everybody's not rowing in the same direction? I 39 00:02:36.360 --> 00:02:38.680 guess it's what I should say. So it's a multi fascinated response, right, 40 00:02:38.680 --> 00:02:42.960 flet so. So let's look at you know, maybe you have a 41 00:02:42.960 --> 00:02:46.759 mission statement and you've got a vision for your company and you have values, 42 00:02:46.960 --> 00:02:51.520 but you're not following them. Maybe you have, you know, over the 43 00:02:51.599 --> 00:02:53.360 over the course of time, your organization has grown, which is great. 44 00:02:53.360 --> 00:02:59.840 Your organization's growing, but you your values have changed. Your vision is changed, 45 00:03:00.120 --> 00:03:02.240 maybe because of a business opportunity, not just because of you know, 46 00:03:02.280 --> 00:03:06.080 you didn't want to go in that direction anymore. So you know you have 47 00:03:06.240 --> 00:03:07.879 to make sure that, like you said, all your people are rowing the 48 00:03:07.879 --> 00:03:12.719 boat in the same direction because, you know, the driver sense that as 49 00:03:12.759 --> 00:03:15.039 well. They sense that, you know, you're not all on the same 50 00:03:15.080 --> 00:03:16.879 page. So you've really got to preach that from the top down. Hey, 51 00:03:16.919 --> 00:03:20.280 this is the type of company that we want to be. Yeah, 52 00:03:20.400 --> 00:03:23.439 got it. So this, I mean it's not just enough to write out 53 00:03:23.439 --> 00:03:27.319 a mission statement, throw it on the wall or on the website and not 54 00:03:27.439 --> 00:03:34.879 actually act upon it in the organization. So are you mentioned drivers in culture. 55 00:03:34.879 --> 00:03:37.800 How do you see people do this? Well, right, how is 56 00:03:37.800 --> 00:03:42.319 an executive? How do I determine this is what we're going to be and 57 00:03:42.360 --> 00:03:45.639 what we're going to stand for, and then how do I get my people 58 00:03:45.639 --> 00:03:49.639 behind well, first off, you live by it right, you, you 59 00:03:49.680 --> 00:03:52.599 as an executive, you say this is the type of company that we're going 60 00:03:52.639 --> 00:03:54.800 to be, right, or you as an executive team, right, and 61 00:03:54.879 --> 00:04:00.520 you develop that mission, that vision, the values right, and you, 62 00:04:00.520 --> 00:04:01.960 you, you have to be the first one in line to say I'm going 63 00:04:02.000 --> 00:04:05.400 to live by these and preach it. The other thing that you need to 64 00:04:05.439 --> 00:04:10.000 do is you need to have those discussions with your people to say, look, 65 00:04:10.039 --> 00:04:12.840 what do you guys think? We need to have those mission that, 66 00:04:12.840 --> 00:04:15.160 that mission statement, are values as an organization be, because if you get 67 00:04:15.160 --> 00:04:18.040 there buying in it, that really helps as well, and that's not just 68 00:04:18.040 --> 00:04:20.439 your office staff, it's your drivers. To write. You know, you 69 00:04:20.439 --> 00:04:24.680 ask them. I mean they want to feel like a part of an organization 70 00:04:24.720 --> 00:04:28.439 and you talk about driver retention. You know that's one of the that's one 71 00:04:28.480 --> 00:04:30.720 of the biggest ways you can do it. You know, it's not just 72 00:04:30.800 --> 00:04:33.480 treating them, treating well, but but it's paying them well and it's making 73 00:04:33.519 --> 00:04:38.000 them feel like a part of that organization also and it's engaging with him. 74 00:04:38.079 --> 00:04:40.879 Right, Jeff, I mean I think it's it goes beyond just pay and 75 00:04:40.959 --> 00:04:46.439 benefits and those things. Like, ultimately all your competitors probably offer similar plus 76 00:04:46.560 --> 00:04:50.839 or pay and benefits in most situations. So, as a driver, why 77 00:04:50.839 --> 00:04:57.000 do I stick with you? Right there? There's something intangible to it's exactly 78 00:04:57.079 --> 00:05:00.360 right. It's do I feel like I'm a part of an organization? Right, 79 00:05:00.360 --> 00:05:03.360 it's not just money or benefits or home time. Equipment is a big 80 00:05:03.399 --> 00:05:08.480 one, but you know, the the big thing is, just like just 81 00:05:08.519 --> 00:05:12.560 like you or I or any you know, anybody that's in the workforce, 82 00:05:12.680 --> 00:05:15.000 they they want to feel like their part is something and they want to feel 83 00:05:15.079 --> 00:05:19.360 like their contribution matters at the end of the day. And for a driver 84 00:05:19.480 --> 00:05:24.000 that's not just getting that freight from point a to point b safely and on 85 00:05:24.040 --> 00:05:28.000 time. It's also I made a difference in the organization that I work for 86 00:05:28.279 --> 00:05:31.279 and it was recognized. Yes, recognition. Right, recognition is it? 87 00:05:31.639 --> 00:05:36.279 I mean that could be a whole nother episode on how do you recognize drivers? 88 00:05:36.319 --> 00:05:39.759 But yeah, I think, I mean recognition. I think is super 89 00:05:39.800 --> 00:05:45.920 important because, look, I think we face this unique dynamic in the trucking 90 00:05:45.920 --> 00:05:48.680 industry and that we have these drivers. We actually don't get that much face 91 00:05:48.720 --> 00:05:54.199 to face time with them, right, because they're out on the road and, 92 00:05:54.600 --> 00:05:57.000 like it's easy, when you're out, you're this, you know, 93 00:05:57.040 --> 00:06:00.720 you're the lone wolf out on the highway, to kind of forget that you 94 00:06:00.759 --> 00:06:03.319 have that support network and that you have that manager that really cares about you. 95 00:06:03.399 --> 00:06:08.279 And then you know about your company's culture, because I'm just, you 96 00:06:08.279 --> 00:06:10.439 know, I'm just in a truck with a logo on the side, like 97 00:06:10.519 --> 00:06:13.600 I don't feel that every day. So right, I mean, how do 98 00:06:13.639 --> 00:06:15.680 you how do you overcome that? Well, so, two things, right. 99 00:06:15.720 --> 00:06:19.120 So let's let's talk about recognition just a little bit more and say that 100 00:06:19.120 --> 00:06:24.160 we got to recognize the good and we have to recognize the bad. Right. 101 00:06:24.240 --> 00:06:28.040 You know, no company is perfect, but you you get better every 102 00:06:28.120 --> 00:06:31.319 day by discussing the weaknesses that you have as an organization, and that's even 103 00:06:31.399 --> 00:06:35.920 with the drivers, whether it's a weekly newsletter or, you know, something 104 00:06:35.920 --> 00:06:39.399 on the bottom of the paystub that says, Hey, look, this is 105 00:06:39.399 --> 00:06:42.240 where we had, we're seeing an issue, whether that's turning paperwork in on 106 00:06:42.279 --> 00:06:46.680 time or roadside inspections, the safety things right, those things are important to 107 00:06:46.680 --> 00:06:49.000 talk to the drivers not just to get not just to raise their awareness, 108 00:06:49.040 --> 00:06:53.959 but also so they know where they can improve. Right. So recognition goes 109 00:06:54.000 --> 00:06:57.199 both ways. But then we also talk about, you know, the lone 110 00:06:57.199 --> 00:07:01.199 wolf that's out there, and really it boils down to having ment driver managers 111 00:07:01.319 --> 00:07:06.240 or fleet managers, whatever, driver dispatchers, whatever you your organization calls them. 112 00:07:06.240 --> 00:07:10.319 ME, personally, I call them driver managers because their job is to 113 00:07:10.439 --> 00:07:15.800 manage that driver's experience, and what that means is from from the day that 114 00:07:15.839 --> 00:07:19.759 they're brought on board to the day that they retire, hopefully that manager manages 115 00:07:19.800 --> 00:07:25.160 the entire experience. So they talk to that driver at least once a day 116 00:07:25.319 --> 00:07:29.600 usually, you know. So they should be the ones that help them steer 117 00:07:29.680 --> 00:07:32.839 through any issues that they have within the organization and they should also be discussing 118 00:07:32.879 --> 00:07:36.360 with those folks the issues that the company might be having that they can help 119 00:07:36.439 --> 00:07:41.519 with. At the same time, they need to know that driver right. 120 00:07:41.560 --> 00:07:44.759 They need to know, hey, John has two kids that are in high 121 00:07:44.800 --> 00:07:47.360 school, his wife is a stayathome mom or a teacher or whatever the case 122 00:07:47.439 --> 00:07:51.040 may be, because those are important things to know. When you know those 123 00:07:51.120 --> 00:07:56.879 things and you know your driver, you know your drivers well, then you 124 00:07:56.920 --> 00:08:01.120 can understand when they're having issues, sometimes before they even realize that they're having 125 00:08:01.199 --> 00:08:05.000 issues, and it's probably because of an issue at home or whatever the case 126 00:08:05.040 --> 00:08:07.920 may be. You know, but you can bring that up with them and 127 00:08:07.920 --> 00:08:09.560 say, Hey, I've noticed a change in your behavior. Is something going 128 00:08:09.639 --> 00:08:13.160 on, and that then gives them that opportunity to say, Hey, look, 129 00:08:13.439 --> 00:08:18.000 I'm having this issue at home or I'm having this issue, I need 130 00:08:18.040 --> 00:08:20.199 to be home more often, or whatever the case may be. What you're 131 00:08:20.240 --> 00:08:26.160 doing there is you're getting getting. The driver is now saying they actually care 132 00:08:26.160 --> 00:08:28.680 about me. I'm not a truck number, I'm not a driver number, 133 00:08:28.720 --> 00:08:33.679 I'm a I'm a human being and they recognize and they care about me. 134 00:08:33.879 --> 00:08:37.960 Yeah, that's that's really interesting. I think too often we probably as what, 135 00:08:37.120 --> 00:08:41.799 whether it's a driver, managers or an executive. Right, we've got 136 00:08:41.840 --> 00:08:45.360 this like punch list of stuff we have to get done today, and one 137 00:08:45.399 --> 00:08:48.919 of those things is getting jeff to turn in his paperwork, and so we 138 00:08:48.960 --> 00:08:50.440 just called Jeff. Jeff, we need you to turn in your paperwork, 139 00:08:50.559 --> 00:08:56.120 right, and there's like a certain level of human touch that disappears when we 140 00:08:56.159 --> 00:09:01.320 do that right. You know that that thirty second conversation and could be, 141 00:09:01.399 --> 00:09:03.360 you know, ninety seconds, but you're saying, you know, hey, 142 00:09:03.399 --> 00:09:07.320 flint, how's it going? How's the wife? Has the kids? Hey, 143 00:09:07.320 --> 00:09:09.039 man, I noticed that you didn't turn in this pick work for the 144 00:09:09.039 --> 00:09:11.480 load that you delivered two days ago. Can you send that into me when 145 00:09:11.519 --> 00:09:15.000 you get a second all right, hey, this is the plan that I've 146 00:09:15.000 --> 00:09:16.440 got going for you. Or, you know, hey when, by the 147 00:09:16.440 --> 00:09:18.759 way, while I got you, you know, what issues are you have 148 00:09:18.879 --> 00:09:22.919 and what can we help you with? Just a little flip of a conversation. 149 00:09:22.919 --> 00:09:26.759 People don't do that because they don't want to get stuck in a conversation 150 00:09:26.799 --> 00:09:28.519 that's going to go on for ten minutes because they have so many things that 151 00:09:28.519 --> 00:09:33.080 they need to do. But what they've got to remember is that five minute 152 00:09:33.120 --> 00:09:37.720 conversation could save that driver and could save you hours of work on the back 153 00:09:37.840 --> 00:09:41.240 end when you have to hire a new driver to replace that driver. So 154 00:09:41.519 --> 00:09:43.960 you got to kind of sometimes he's take the conversation, right. They're out 155 00:09:43.960 --> 00:09:46.639 there on the road, they've got nothing else to do. Sometimes they just 156 00:09:46.679 --> 00:09:50.320 need someone to lend an ear to him. Yeah, yeah, and and 157 00:09:50.480 --> 00:09:54.279 this is like something that is numerically hard to measure, right, like what 158 00:09:54.480 --> 00:09:58.399 is it like? How do we measure culture or relationship with our drivers? 159 00:09:58.399 --> 00:10:01.679 Like obviously it shows up in retention, but if you see the jumping, 160 00:10:01.799 --> 00:10:05.840 you know, retention numbers or churn numbers, like it's now too late, 161 00:10:05.960 --> 00:10:09.679 right, you've already lost your drivers. Like this is something, I think 162 00:10:09.720 --> 00:10:13.480 that you have to make a conscious effort to continually invest in. And we 163 00:10:13.799 --> 00:10:18.000 had a guest on a few weeks go, Britt bailiff. Actually I was 164 00:10:18.039 --> 00:10:20.679 a safety director of beach her green, and he said that he just makes 165 00:10:20.679 --> 00:10:24.039 a point to call all of his employees, right, all of his drivers, 166 00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:28.399 at least once a week, him as the safety director, just to 167 00:10:28.480 --> 00:10:31.360 check in. Hey, I don't have anything for for you today. Specific 168 00:10:31.399 --> 00:10:33.000 to discuss. I just want to know how you're doing. What did you 169 00:10:33.080 --> 00:10:37.000 encounter this week that you felt like was unsafe? For? What resources can 170 00:10:37.039 --> 00:10:41.519 I provide you with? Right, hey, when's your next vacation? Right, 171 00:10:41.519 --> 00:10:43.000 when do you need a day off? Like that, little stuff, 172 00:10:43.080 --> 00:10:48.080 I think goes a long way, even though, you know, when you've 173 00:10:48.080 --> 00:10:52.279 got hundreds of employees, it feels completely impossible to do that with every one 174 00:10:52.360 --> 00:10:54.399 of them, but it's actually a super important investment. Well, it's just 175 00:10:54.440 --> 00:11:00.200 like, you know, I'm a big proponent of follow up calls. So 176 00:11:00.480 --> 00:11:03.039 driver comes on board. Right, there should be at least three follow up 177 00:11:03.080 --> 00:11:05.399 calls. Right, one at that seven day mark. A man, how 178 00:11:05.480 --> 00:11:09.960 is your first week? Is it everything that would how is orientation? Where 179 00:11:09.000 --> 00:11:11.960 can we improve? Right, you know, one at that two week or 180 00:11:13.000 --> 00:11:15.799 that thirty day mark, you know, whichever you choose, to say hey, 181 00:11:15.840 --> 00:11:18.759 are we still living up to your expectations? You know, and then 182 00:11:18.799 --> 00:11:20.720 one at that, you know, thirty or ninety or sixty or ninety day 183 00:11:20.720 --> 00:11:22.320 mark, to say hey, look, you've been here three months, we 184 00:11:22.360 --> 00:11:26.200 appreciate everything that you've that you've been doing so far. You know, how 185 00:11:26.240 --> 00:11:30.480 can we help improve? You know, because it's statistically speaking. If you 186 00:11:30.519 --> 00:11:31.960 if you have a driver that stays ninety days, they're going to stay two 187 00:11:33.039 --> 00:11:35.240 years. You know, Yep. And once you get to that point, 188 00:11:35.320 --> 00:11:39.120 you've got a relationship. You've got to maintain that relationship and so being able 189 00:11:39.120 --> 00:11:41.960 to do that through follow up calls and things like that really help. But 190 00:11:43.000 --> 00:11:45.639 you know, you would talked about how do we how do we measure that, 191 00:11:45.639 --> 00:11:48.240 that retender, that how much the driver's care or how much they feel 192 00:11:48.279 --> 00:11:52.279 like we care? I think the one thing you see is loyalty, and 193 00:11:52.320 --> 00:11:56.720 then you also see referrals, because people want to work with people that they 194 00:11:56.759 --> 00:12:01.679 like or that they that they've met in the industry and they care about, 195 00:12:01.720 --> 00:12:05.399 and so they they will bring those people to companies where they feel like they're 196 00:12:05.519 --> 00:12:09.519 being valued. Interesting. Yeah, you know what you know, with the 197 00:12:09.559 --> 00:12:11.840 thought that just popped in my head, and I'm a software guy, Jeff, 198 00:12:11.879 --> 00:12:16.320 so I'm sitting here thinking like do you need a c rm? Oh, 199 00:12:16.440 --> 00:12:20.600 most right, right, to like measure and manage. Have we talked 200 00:12:20.600 --> 00:12:24.000 to Jeff this month and ask him how he's doing? Have we asked you 201 00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:26.840 for any feedback, and how are we codefying that in the organization? Right, 202 00:12:26.960 --> 00:12:30.559 like, have you ever seen a customer do that? Like have a 203 00:12:30.639 --> 00:12:33.440 dashboard of here's the driver feedback. What I would do? What I would 204 00:12:33.480 --> 00:12:37.960 do is within the the tms software that we use, you have the ability 205 00:12:37.960 --> 00:12:41.960 to add notes to a driver file, right, and so we just created 206 00:12:41.039 --> 00:12:45.480 notes, created a specific type of note that was, you know, seven 207 00:12:45.559 --> 00:12:48.879 day follow up, Thirty Day follow up, Ninety Day follow up, right, 208 00:12:48.879 --> 00:12:50.320 and then we could also then just search by those notes and we could 209 00:12:50.399 --> 00:12:54.279 quantup, you correlate all the data and we could look at it. But 210 00:12:54.320 --> 00:12:56.600 then we'd have, you know, retention meetings where we'd bring up those issues 211 00:12:56.759 --> 00:13:00.879 or we, you know, talk about the great things orn the not so 212 00:13:00.960 --> 00:13:05.200 great things. But what that does and with those retention committees, or if 213 00:13:05.240 --> 00:13:07.360 you have a retention committee, or turnover committee, some people call it, 214 00:13:07.399 --> 00:13:11.360 those are great if you have one. The one thing I would suggest is 215 00:13:11.399 --> 00:13:13.639 include a driver, to include your most senior driver, include, you know, 216 00:13:13.759 --> 00:13:16.840 driver that does a great job for you. Whatever you want to do 217 00:13:16.879 --> 00:13:22.360 there, but include the driver because you want their perspective. Even if your 218 00:13:22.600 --> 00:13:24.519 people, your organizations full of people that used to be drivers and are now 219 00:13:24.519 --> 00:13:28.440 in the office, they're not out there today, so they don't know what 220 00:13:28.480 --> 00:13:31.960 it's like out there today. Grab and driver, bring him in. That 221 00:13:31.000 --> 00:13:35.360 really helps lso shouldn't we do that? I mean should we not only do 222 00:13:35.399 --> 00:13:37.600 that on the retention committee, though? I mean shouldn't that also be I 223 00:13:37.639 --> 00:13:41.120 don't know, we I've heard of people having accident review committees. Absolutely a 224 00:13:41.159 --> 00:13:45.320 couple of drivers and maybe there's a safety committee. Like all of a sudden 225 00:13:45.360 --> 00:13:50.519 this starts to feel a whole lot more inclusive of the driver and and like 226 00:13:50.600 --> 00:13:54.919 we want them to actually be a part of our organization, not just holy 227 00:13:54.960 --> 00:13:58.120 steering wheel. Absolutely, and you know the other thing that people don't think 228 00:13:58.159 --> 00:14:01.960 about when you talk about customers, right, and you've got, you know, 229 00:14:01.000 --> 00:14:05.200 include your drivers in those discussions when you're talking about, you know, 230 00:14:05.519 --> 00:14:07.159 what freight do we want more of? What freight do we want less of? 231 00:14:07.320 --> 00:14:11.639 What customers do we love? What customers do we hate? Because you, 232 00:14:11.720 --> 00:14:16.120 as an operational person, may have a customer that you absolutely love, 233 00:14:16.279 --> 00:14:20.159 but the drivers absolutely hate whether it's tough to get in and out of from 234 00:14:20.200 --> 00:14:22.960 a, you know, a backing perspective, mean it's type parking lot. 235 00:14:22.960 --> 00:14:26.279 Maybe they're the people, they are just jerks. Maybe, you know, 236 00:14:26.440 --> 00:14:30.000 maybe they don't have any facilities, or maybe they've got excellent facilities and the 237 00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:33.679 people there treat the drivers like God's right. You want that feedback from the 238 00:14:33.759 --> 00:14:37.519 driver because you know, the customer pays the bills, but the drivers the 239 00:14:37.519 --> 00:14:39.879 one that has to deal with them every day, on them, you know, 240 00:14:39.960 --> 00:14:43.639 day in and day out, on a daily basis. And that also 241 00:14:43.759 --> 00:14:46.960 makes them feel more valued, right, because now again we're circling back to 242 00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:50.440 say you're a part of this organization, we value your opinion. So, 243 00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:54.720 yeah, that's interesting. All right. How many companies do you think are 244 00:14:54.759 --> 00:14:56.799 doing this right? Like, if you had to guess a percentage, Jeff, 245 00:14:58.279 --> 00:15:01.200 yeah, that that's a tough one, right. Maybe twenty, thirty 246 00:15:01.200 --> 00:15:03.639 percent maybe it's got to be pretty low, right, based on their turnover 247 00:15:03.759 --> 00:15:07.759 rates and in the industry like what? But the ones? Here's what I'll 248 00:15:07.799 --> 00:15:11.759 say, and coming from one most recently that I worked that I was a 249 00:15:11.799 --> 00:15:15.000 part of the team ats. You know, for a while we had a 250 00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:16.759 waiting list of drivers out the door. You know, trucks were full, 251 00:15:16.799 --> 00:15:20.759 and not just because of equipment issues. You know, everybody's having that equipment 252 00:15:20.759 --> 00:15:22.639 shortage issue right now, which is a real thing. Excuse me, but 253 00:15:24.200 --> 00:15:26.919 if you treat your drivers right, you pay him well, you know, 254 00:15:26.960 --> 00:15:28.600 they feel like they're part of the organization, they're going to want to work 255 00:15:28.639 --> 00:15:31.639 for you, and so those are the ones that you'll see. You'll see 256 00:15:31.679 --> 00:15:35.759 companies that have a waiting list of drivers. You'll see companies that that you'll 257 00:15:35.799 --> 00:15:39.000 reach out to and they'll say, look, we don't have any empty trucks 258 00:15:39.080 --> 00:15:43.679 right now, you know, because even the ones that that don't have that 259 00:15:43.799 --> 00:15:46.320 can't get equipment so they can't grow, those guys are turning the drivers they 260 00:15:46.320 --> 00:15:50.240 don't want right. So you know, the companies that are doing it right 261 00:15:50.240 --> 00:15:54.320 are going to have a waiting list of drivers. That's that's really interesting. 262 00:15:54.320 --> 00:15:58.679 And we've talked on the show a few times, Jeff, about competitive differentiation, 263 00:15:58.679 --> 00:16:03.320 competitive advantage, right, because like at a high level it feels like 264 00:16:03.320 --> 00:16:06.080 we all take the same cargo from point a to point B, right, 265 00:16:06.159 --> 00:16:10.759 and you know, rate is always very competitive, and so we're in this 266 00:16:10.759 --> 00:16:14.679 market. Do you find a way to differentiate yourself from the competitors? And 267 00:16:14.720 --> 00:16:17.559 if you're listening to this, maybe this is one of those things. What 268 00:16:17.639 --> 00:16:19.399 do you think, Jeff? I would completely agree and you know, you 269 00:16:19.399 --> 00:16:22.480 think about you know, numbers, right, and everybody says, well, 270 00:16:22.519 --> 00:16:25.639 you know, pay is a big deal, and pay is a big deal. 271 00:16:25.840 --> 00:16:29.039 Right, absolutely, everybody's got bills to pay. I think people sometimes 272 00:16:29.120 --> 00:16:30.960 look at it wrong and what they don't do is look at their cost of 273 00:16:32.039 --> 00:16:37.039 hire versus their turn over and saying, well, if I paid drivers more 274 00:16:37.080 --> 00:16:40.759 and I treated them better and my turnover dropped, well then my cost of 275 00:16:40.840 --> 00:16:45.279 hire drops. Right. So you're just you're taking it from one pocket and 276 00:16:45.320 --> 00:16:48.320 putting it in the other, but you're not throwing the money out the window, 277 00:16:48.399 --> 00:16:51.480 right, and that's what you're doing when you're when you're having to consistently 278 00:16:51.559 --> 00:16:55.519 hire drivers, is you're throwing money right out the window because you know that 279 00:16:55.919 --> 00:16:57.519 the cost of higher is going up and up and up. Yeah, yeah, 280 00:16:57.559 --> 00:17:00.600 that's that's interesting. Okay, so if I'm lostening to this, Jeff, 281 00:17:00.679 --> 00:17:03.840 like would like, if you had, to give me some advice. 282 00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:06.400 I'm not doing any of this stuff. I think, wow, that's a 283 00:17:06.440 --> 00:17:10.039 really good idea. Like, where do I start? What's my first step 284 00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:12.519 to saying I'm going to make my drivers feel like part of my organization and 285 00:17:12.519 --> 00:17:15.359 that we care about the deeply? First thing they need to do it, 286 00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:18.119 you know, and everybody says this kind of a corny idea. Of It. 287 00:17:18.160 --> 00:17:22.079 Do a survey, whether whether you do it yourself or you outsource it. 288 00:17:22.160 --> 00:17:26.200 Sometimes I recommend outsourcing that because you're going to get a lot more honest 289 00:17:26.279 --> 00:17:30.680 feedback outside of your organization, and you want it to be anonymous, right, 290 00:17:30.720 --> 00:17:33.200 so drivers don't feel like they're going to get singled out for saying hey, 291 00:17:33.240 --> 00:17:37.400 you know Soandso's and jerk or whatever. Yeah, but you know, 292 00:17:37.480 --> 00:17:41.759 do that survey. Find out where your biggest issues are. Right. Maybe 293 00:17:41.839 --> 00:17:45.240 you've got a great crew of drivers that you know that you want to continue 294 00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:47.880 to improve with. Maybe you hold a meeting and you say, Hey, 295 00:17:47.920 --> 00:17:51.000 look, I want to know where we can improve this. You know, 296 00:17:51.079 --> 00:17:53.759 you could also be walking down the hallway in your office and see a driver 297 00:17:53.839 --> 00:17:56.720 that just came in from the road and say hey, give me two minutes 298 00:17:56.720 --> 00:18:00.200 of your time. You know, yeah, tell me what you think about 299 00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:02.480 out this customer. Tell me what you think about, you know, your 300 00:18:02.559 --> 00:18:04.680 driver manager. Tell me what you think about the safety department, about the 301 00:18:04.680 --> 00:18:07.359 maintenance department? You know, she got to write this stuff down. You 302 00:18:07.400 --> 00:18:11.160 have to, because the minute that you leave that conversation you're going to forget. 303 00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:12.880 Well, and here's the thing, go back to that driver a week 304 00:18:12.960 --> 00:18:15.759 later and say hey, you know, we talked about this, this and 305 00:18:15.839 --> 00:18:19.000 this, this is what we're doing, because you get lost in the in 306 00:18:19.039 --> 00:18:22.759 the daily noise, right, you've got a million things going on as a 307 00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:25.599 trucking company executive, right, there's always a fire to put out. That 308 00:18:25.680 --> 00:18:27.160 driver doesn't have that issue. So he's going to sit there and stew and 309 00:18:27.160 --> 00:18:30.759 say hey, we had this conversation, I'm not seeing any changes. So 310 00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:33.960 it just went in one in one ear and out the other. Whereas you 311 00:18:33.960 --> 00:18:37.039 can turn around and say hey, driver, we had this discussion last week. 312 00:18:37.079 --> 00:18:40.480 I wanted you to know that I didn't forget about it. This is 313 00:18:40.519 --> 00:18:44.720 what we're doing for these issues, you know, and that really helps you 314 00:18:44.759 --> 00:18:47.519 know. Yeah, that's that's interesting and I think, I think a lot 315 00:18:47.519 --> 00:18:48.400 of people don't do it right. I mean, as an executive, I 316 00:18:48.440 --> 00:18:51.759 don't do I forget to follow up with people all the time. We have 317 00:18:51.880 --> 00:18:55.279 do right. You just have to you really have to focus and I think 318 00:18:55.279 --> 00:18:59.960 in trucking like it seems really silly right like it. It seems it's not 319 00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:03.000 where you should spend your time or energy. But I really think it is, 320 00:19:03.119 --> 00:19:06.119 especially. Maybe it wasn't true ten years ago, but I think it's 321 00:19:06.160 --> 00:19:11.079 true today. It absolutely is, absolutely is, and it's you know it 322 00:19:11.119 --> 00:19:15.480 is because, you know, drivers are people in general. Drivers, Non 323 00:19:15.599 --> 00:19:18.799 Drivers, Office folks, whatever. People aren't going to work for companies. 324 00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:22.680 They don't want to work for anymore, you know, they don't have to. 325 00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:26.079 They don't have to. And and the the cult the the workforce has 326 00:19:26.079 --> 00:19:30.680 shifted right. You're seeing people nowadays that would say I would rather be poor 327 00:19:30.680 --> 00:19:33.880 than hate going to work every day. Right. And you know, for 328 00:19:34.039 --> 00:19:37.240 drivers they can say, look, I can throw a rock and get five 329 00:19:37.359 --> 00:19:41.960 jobs, right. So, you know, if I'm going to work somewhere, 330 00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:45.079 I want to feel valued, and that's that's the key. Make them 331 00:19:45.119 --> 00:19:48.920 feel valued. Treat him with respect. If you make a mistake, own 332 00:19:48.960 --> 00:19:51.799 it. Hey screwed up, absolutely, we're going to make it right right 333 00:19:51.799 --> 00:19:53.400 away, right. Yeah, you know, the one thing that I say 334 00:19:53.400 --> 00:19:57.480 for a truck and company executives is don't be don't be in that ivory tower 335 00:19:57.720 --> 00:20:00.319 right, be on the floor it. Don't be afraid to go out on 336 00:20:00.359 --> 00:20:03.920 the floor and dispatch trucks for a day. If driver managers outside of court, 337 00:20:04.240 --> 00:20:07.240 you know don't. Don't ask you people to do something that they're not 338 00:20:07.519 --> 00:20:11.079 that you're not willing to do yourself, because that goes a long way too. 339 00:20:11.440 --> 00:20:14.599 I can't tell you how many times I've, you know, gone out 340 00:20:14.599 --> 00:20:15.480 on the floor because somebody was outsticking. So, you know what, I'll 341 00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:18.359 dispatch trucks for today, right, and then had to have a driver come 342 00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:21.759 in and say wow, the number you know, the number two at the 343 00:20:21.759 --> 00:20:26.279 company, is here dispatching trucks. Right that you know, that's or you 344 00:20:26.319 --> 00:20:27.160 give him a call and say, I got your next load for in the 345 00:20:27.160 --> 00:20:30.880 say, you know, what are you dispatching for? Well, somebody needed 346 00:20:30.920 --> 00:20:33.400 to do it. So, yeah, that goes a long way to or 347 00:20:33.440 --> 00:20:36.920 go work in the shop right like that. See some see them facetoface as 348 00:20:37.000 --> 00:20:40.319 they come through, or I mean jumping, jumping the truck and run aload. 349 00:20:40.359 --> 00:20:41.079 When I own a truck and gunny, I love doing that. I 350 00:20:41.119 --> 00:20:45.000 mean it was it was a lot of fun. Right, we have got 351 00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:48.160 a somebody calls in sick or whatever, and yeah, all of a sudden 352 00:20:48.160 --> 00:20:51.279 I'm in a truck and I kind of liked it. Yeah. Well, 353 00:20:51.359 --> 00:20:52.920 you know, and you know asn't as an executive when you get into truck 354 00:20:52.920 --> 00:20:56.759 and go run a load, it's you're doing it for fun now, right, 355 00:20:56.839 --> 00:20:59.519 yeah, and so you know, that's that's something to think about. 356 00:20:59.640 --> 00:21:02.079 Or maybe you just hopp in with a with a driver and say hey, 357 00:21:02.079 --> 00:21:03.880 man, we're you know, I'm going to ride with you today or for 358 00:21:03.920 --> 00:21:06.839 the week or whatever it looks like. But I got to tell you, 359 00:21:06.880 --> 00:21:08.720 when I did it, I learned a whole lot as an executive that I 360 00:21:08.759 --> 00:21:11.319 would have never learned from the you know, sitting in the office right, 361 00:21:11.359 --> 00:21:15.359 like you got to go pick up a load. I mean I remember one 362 00:21:15.400 --> 00:21:18.240 example, based on how we had a schedule of I end up sitting in 363 00:21:18.279 --> 00:21:21.079 Houston, Houston traffic, for two hours, right, right, and it 364 00:21:21.160 --> 00:21:23.400 was like we could have easily fixed that problem, right, we could have 365 00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:29.440 done that load first and reorganize the schedule to make the driver's life a whole 366 00:21:29.480 --> 00:21:32.480 lot eas right, exactly. You know. And then look at look at 367 00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:34.880 your freight to and say, you know, if if I was in that 368 00:21:34.920 --> 00:21:38.240 truck, what I want these transit times? What I want that two am 369 00:21:38.279 --> 00:21:41.839 pick up for that two am to live. Yeah, or can the customer 370 00:21:41.880 --> 00:21:45.559 facilitate a drop trailer? Right right. Those types of things. If you 371 00:21:45.640 --> 00:21:48.160 have those conversations as well. You know that that goes a long way. 372 00:21:48.200 --> 00:21:52.359 Also, yeah, does this load really have to be tarped? Right? 373 00:21:52.440 --> 00:21:55.240 Yeah, exact, exactly. Yeah, yeah, that's that's cool. So 374 00:21:55.319 --> 00:21:57.799 that's that's a really good idea. Like something really simple, if you're listening 375 00:21:57.839 --> 00:22:00.319 to this, that you can go out to, go out and do. 376 00:22:00.359 --> 00:22:02.599 If you don't have your C deal, go work in your truck shop for 377 00:22:02.599 --> 00:22:04.960 a day, dispatch trucks for a day, do something that gets you face 378 00:22:06.039 --> 00:22:08.920 to face or phone to phone with your drive slows and even as simple as 379 00:22:08.960 --> 00:22:11.880 you know, every day, you know it's you know, you you get 380 00:22:11.960 --> 00:22:15.200 up from your desk and you go walk around for a minute, right, 381 00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:17.279 whether that's, you know, to stretch your legs, get a cup of 382 00:22:17.319 --> 00:22:21.000 coffee or whatever. You know, call it management by walking around. Right, 383 00:22:21.079 --> 00:22:22.279 you're walking around, you hear something to stop, they wait a minute. 384 00:22:22.279 --> 00:22:26.200 Would you say? That's important stuff too. It could be something as 385 00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:29.000 simple as, you know, you're here in a conversation and somebody miss, 386 00:22:29.079 --> 00:22:30.680 misspeaks, or maybe their tone is a little different. You got to say, 387 00:22:30.680 --> 00:22:33.519 Hey, let's calm it down a little bit. Yeah, you know, 388 00:22:33.559 --> 00:22:36.359 those little things, those go a long way as well. He'll go 389 00:22:36.440 --> 00:22:38.200 pick up garbage in the parking line as you're walking around, right, yeah, 390 00:22:38.240 --> 00:22:41.359 you know, I don't know how many conversations I've had with people where 391 00:22:41.359 --> 00:22:42.400 it was a nice day and said, Hey, let's let's go walk around 392 00:22:42.400 --> 00:22:45.559 the parking lot. Right. So you walk around the parking lot and as 393 00:22:45.559 --> 00:22:48.079 you're walking around the parking lot you pick up the piece of garbage you see, 394 00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:49.680 right, yeah, well, you know, you're just picking up garbage. 395 00:22:49.720 --> 00:22:52.839 But to somebody else who maybe they're driving through the lot, they see 396 00:22:52.920 --> 00:22:56.160 a manager and executive about their picking up garbage. Well, it's the little 397 00:22:56.160 --> 00:23:00.359 things, right. Yep, subconsciously they're saying, wow, that's you know, 398 00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:03.680 he actually cares. Right, yeah, that's that's that's cool. And 399 00:23:03.759 --> 00:23:07.039 these are like such little easy things you can do as a manager. Yep, 400 00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:10.440 Jeff, look, this is this has been this has been a really 401 00:23:10.440 --> 00:23:14.599 fun conversation. It all comes back to culture and and how you drive that 402 00:23:14.680 --> 00:23:18.519 in the organization and and I think we've given some really practical advice today. 403 00:23:18.559 --> 00:23:21.759 Is there anything else that I haven't asked you that you think we should add 404 00:23:21.759 --> 00:23:25.039 to this conversation? You know, I'll come back to I'll come back to 405 00:23:25.160 --> 00:23:29.119 it's all about respect and it's all about treating people with dignity and respect, 406 00:23:29.119 --> 00:23:33.119 because they deserve to be. It's all about making sure that they're taking care 407 00:23:33.160 --> 00:23:36.079 of, not only from a pay perspective, but from a you know, 408 00:23:36.119 --> 00:23:38.200 they feel value, they feel like they're a part of something. You know, 409 00:23:38.240 --> 00:23:42.000 make them feel a part of it. Ask the right questions. Listen 410 00:23:42.119 --> 00:23:45.319 is the biggest thing, right, listen and act. If they say something 411 00:23:45.319 --> 00:23:47.920 and you're going to do it, then tell him you're going to do it 412 00:23:47.960 --> 00:23:49.640 and follow up. If you're not going to do it, at least explain 413 00:23:49.759 --> 00:23:52.880 why you can't. Right. That's the thing that some people there. You 414 00:23:52.920 --> 00:23:56.599 know that that's Ay, well, we're not going to do that. Okay, 415 00:23:56.599 --> 00:24:00.039 well, we're not going to do that because, you know, it 416 00:24:00.640 --> 00:24:03.119 really goes a long way. Yeah, that's the worst. I mean times 417 00:24:03.119 --> 00:24:04.160 you've been in the line of the DMV and they're like we're not going to 418 00:24:04.240 --> 00:24:07.240 do that, and you're like, I don't I don't understand. I like 419 00:24:07.319 --> 00:24:11.240 it feels the same way. It right same way when you're in really does 420 00:24:11.240 --> 00:24:14.519 and it's just, hey, we're not going to do that, you know, 421 00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:18.920 because we do this instead. Or because this is the cost ramification and 422 00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:22.000 it just doesn't make sense. Right. They may not agree with you, 423 00:24:22.000 --> 00:24:25.079 you may not see eyed I but they at least understand where you're coming from 424 00:24:25.079 --> 00:24:27.240 and appreciate the fact, just like we talked about being human beings again, 425 00:24:27.359 --> 00:24:32.279 right, we understand that you're justifying that decision. We don't have to agree, 426 00:24:32.319 --> 00:24:34.279 you know. Yeah, that's that's good, good, good stuff. 427 00:24:34.359 --> 00:24:37.759 Jeff. If somebody's listening to this and they want to get a hold to 428 00:24:37.839 --> 00:24:40.359 you, what's the best way? Absolutely you can shoot me an email. 429 00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:45.319 My email is Jeff Dot K at transport riskcom. It's easiest way to get 430 00:24:45.359 --> 00:24:48.720 hold of me. More than happy to answer any questions anyone's got. You 431 00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:52.599 know, this is a topic that I'm pretty passionate about, so happy to 432 00:24:52.599 --> 00:24:56.759 talk to anyone about it. There you go. Good, Jeff. Thanks 433 00:24:56.799 --> 00:24:59.839 so much. Thanks so much for joining me today. I appreciate it. 434 00:24:59.960 --> 00:25:02.319 Yeah, it's been a lot of fun. So, just if you're listening 435 00:25:02.359 --> 00:25:03.559 to this, Jeff's going to stick around after the show. We're going to 436 00:25:03.559 --> 00:25:07.279 do the fast five. For those of you that do not know what the 437 00:25:07.279 --> 00:25:10.440 fast five is, every guess we have on the show we ask five rapid 438 00:25:10.440 --> 00:25:15.400 fire questions after the show and we will email you the answers to Jeff's questions. 439 00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:18.319 But you have to be subscribed to our email list. So go to 440 00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:25.799 the road forward podcastcom. That's the road forward podcastcom typing your email, click 441 00:25:25.880 --> 00:25:29.440 subscribe. You're going to get the answers to jeff fast, five in a 442 00:25:29.519 --> 00:25:32.960 day or two you, once we get it recorded and and the emails out. 443 00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:34.759 So I look. We're so happy that you joined us today. If 444 00:25:34.759 --> 00:25:38.960 you're listening to this show, we hope that you learn something. Remember that 445 00:25:40.400 --> 00:25:45.559 this industry is changing really rapidly and as an executive you need to do a 446 00:25:45.559 --> 00:25:52.920 really good job of thinking strategically about you and your company's rode forward. If 447 00:25:52.960 --> 00:25:56.359 you manage a truck fleet, you go to bed every night driving that three 448 00:25:56.519 --> 00:26:00.039 am phone call, because that call is never a good one. Either your 449 00:26:00.079 --> 00:26:03.200 drivers tell you they have a flat tire and the shipment's delayed, or they 450 00:26:03.200 --> 00:26:06.039 were shut down and take it it at the way station, if the thought 451 00:26:06.079 --> 00:26:08.440 of those middle of the night calls keeps you up at all hours. truckspy 452 00:26:08.519 --> 00:26:14.799 can help trucks by gives managers total visibility into what's happening on the road companies 453 00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:18.240 use our hardware to make sure their fleets are productive and safe, so that 454 00:26:18.279 --> 00:26:22.319 managers like you can see in real time where their trucks are and what they're 455 00:26:22.359 --> 00:26:26.680 doing. More trucks make it on time and without issues or losses, helping 456 00:26:26.720 --> 00:26:30.960 you rest easy. Learn more at trucks by DOT IO. You've been listening 457 00:26:30.960 --> 00:26:36.720 to the road forward, the show for trucking industry that's like you. If 458 00:26:36.759 --> 00:26:38.880 you want to hear from other business owners who've seen trends come and go, 459 00:26:40.039 --> 00:26:44.680 all the while building lasting businesses that keep America running, make sure you're subscribed 460 00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:48.160 to catch more episodes. To easily find the show on your favorite podcast player, 461 00:26:48.240 --> 00:26:52.079 go to the road forward podcastcom. Until next time, keep your eyes 462 00:26:52.119 --> 00:26:52.440 on the road forward.